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can't choose a DSLR -- these are my criteria

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Jason Berger
can't choose a DSLR -- these are my criteria
on Dec 10, 2013 at 10:28:16 am
Last Edited By Jason Berger on Dec 10, 2013 at 12:41:23 pm

UPDATE: I'm no longer thinking about the GH3, I'm leaning towards getting the Canon 70D and the Tamron 24-70mm 2.8 lens. In a few months I'll get some Rokinon cine lenses.

I want to get a cheap DSLR and build up a good collection of lenses, then in a few years get a serious camera.

My primary criteria:
-shoots in 60fps (for slo-mo -- this eliminates a Blackmagic)
-minimal moire / rolling shutter
-will use full-frame lenses (thinking Canon EF lenses)
-cinematic look (ie. shallow depth of field)
-cheap-ish (under $2000)

Secondary criteria:
-autofocus
-will be filming handheld

I'm shooting my own projects, so I won't have clients asking for whatever is popular at the time.

I'm not completely certain if my plan is sound. I have 3 Nikon non-electronic lenses (35mm, 85mm and a zoom), which probably shouldn't influence anything. I will probably one day upgrade to something like a red, which can take several types of lenses.

Right now I'm leaning to the Lumix GH3, but I'm open to suggestions. Can a Lumix use a Canon or Nikon lense and still have autofocus?


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Steve Crow
Re: can't choose a DSLR -- these are my criteria
on Dec 10, 2013 at 2:07:30 pm

The Canon 6D, a full frame camera, is on sale now for the same price (or about) as the 70D.

http://www.dslrfilmnoob.com/2013/12/06/canon-6d-1415-amazon/

Steve Crow
Crow Digital Media
http://www.CrowDigitalMedia.com


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Jason Berger
Re: can't choose a DSLR -- these are my criteria
on Dec 10, 2013 at 11:06:18 pm

That's a great link, thank you! 6D looks like my choice.

BUUUUUUUUT I recently just found out it may be possible to attach canon EF lenses to a GH3 with something called a speed booster. Does anyone know if the full electronic capabilities would be adapted? Or would it be a purely mechanical lens?


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Roger Martin
Re: can't choose a DSLR -- these are my criteria
on Dec 11, 2013 at 12:32:01 am

Try to get "Hand On" a Nikon D5300
I have had one almost two weeks and the 1080P 60 Video is awsum.
And you can shoot it at ISO 12800 with practically no artifacts.
Great color, and really smooth.

You may still want a recorder though
because every DSLR I know of is limited to a 4GB file which is only 10 minutes.
However, the D5300 does not over heat if you just keep hiting the record button.
I've tested it for well over one hour at a time so far.

I already have an Odyssey 7 on pre-order. It will record DNxHD 90 at 60 fps.


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Jason Jenkins
Re: can't choose a DSLR -- these are my criteria
on Dec 11, 2013 at 5:41:54 pm

[Roger Martin] "every DSLR I know of is limited to a 4GB file which is only 10 minutes"

The Panasonic GH Series has no record-time limit. I recorded for 7 hours straight in one test I did.

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!

Check out my Mormon.org profile.


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Roger Martin
Re: can't choose a DSLR -- these are my criteria
on Dec 11, 2013 at 9:25:12 pm

7 hours straight recording
The GH must be restarting the Video after each 4 GB or else using exFAT.
Either way they prove it can be done.

However, does you Panasonic do this while recording 1080P 60 (Progressive 59.94, not interlaced) ?

And that is my number one firmware request for the Nikon D5300.


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Jason Jenkins
Re: can't choose a DSLR -- these are my criteria
on Dec 11, 2013 at 9:28:50 pm

[Roger Martin] "However, does you Panasonic do this while recording 1080P 60 (Progressive 59.94, not interlaced) ?"

I was shooting 1080p 23.98 at the time, with the GH2. The GH3 will shoot 1080p 59.94.

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!

Check out my Mormon.org profile.


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Bill Bruner
Re: can't choose a DSLR -- these are my criteria
on Dec 12, 2013 at 11:50:37 am
Last Edited By Bill Bruner on Dec 12, 2013 at 2:07:41 pm

Hi Jason - as I recall, your criteria included

1080/60p, autofocus and minimal moire? The 6D has a pretty serious moire challenge, as seen here:



..and it has a continuous recording limit measured in minutes instead of hours.

The 6D (and D5300) are limited to 29 minutes and 59 seconds of continuous recording at 1080/30p before they have to be restarted (the D5300 only records for 20 minutes at 1080/60p, while the 6D and all Canon DSLRs lack 1080/60p)

See the Canon 6D press release with reference to the recording time limits here: http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/about_canon?pageKeyCode=pressreldetail&docId=...

See Nikon D5300 specs with reference to the recording time limits here: http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Products/Product/Digital-SLR-Cameras/1519/...

As with camcorders, Canon and Nikon now span files across the 4GB limit - but both manufacturers purposely limit their DSLRs to 30 minutes in software for EU tax reasons - and are too lazy to remove the limit outside of the EU.

Panasonic is the only DSL manufacturer that removes this limit for its non-EU customers.

I use my cameras like camcorders, so I can't buy these intentionally crippled cameras.

And, after answering desperate questions from several shooters who were surprised when their cameras stopped recording in the middle of wedding ceremonies or other important events, I don't recommend them for anyone except narrative and other short clip shooters.

The GH3, on the other hand, records for hours at 1080/60p

See specs here: http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/systemcamera/gms/gh3/specifications.html

As far as lenses go - you can use Canon lenses with micro 4/3 (MFT) cameras such as the GH3 and have full aperture (but not autofocus) control with a Redrock Micro Livelens adapter.

The total price of an $899 GH3 and the $598 Redrock Micro Livelens adapter is less than a 6D, even at the $1499 sale price.

The Metabones EF to MFT adapter is not yet available.

Cheers and good luck with your decision!

Bill


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Roger Martin
Re: Choose a HDSLR -- these are my criteria
on Dec 12, 2013 at 3:05:48 pm

So, The GH3 records for hours.
Is that at best Quality?

The D5300 only records 1080P 60 for 10 minutes at best Quality.
However, that quality is superb.
I have a Odyssey7 ordered, it does extended recordingss at 1080P 60.

How good are the best Videos from the GH3?

How high ISO can it use?

Are the Low-Light Movies any good?
The D5300 Video at 12,800 in low light are very good indeed

Are the Action (moving subject) movies any good?

Is there anyway to compare acurately?
I doubt YouTube/Vimeo shows 1080P 60 movies.

I will post some D5300 Videos to assuredphotos.com/Videos later today.
They will be original MOV files renamed to Camera and 1080P 60, 30 etc.
You can view them with free VLC media player.


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Bill Bruner
Re: Choose a HDSLR -- these are my criteria
on Dec 13, 2013 at 5:38:08 am

So, The GH3 records for hours.
Is that at best Quality?

Yes

The D5300 only records 1080P 60 for 10 minutes at best Quality.
However, that quality is superb.
I have a Odyssey7 ordered, it does extended recordingss at 1080P 60.

How good are the best Videos from the GH3?

Here are a couple of examples recorded at 1080/60p 50mbps (higher bit rate than Nikon cameras)





How high ISO can it use?

ISO6400 max

Are the Low-Light Movies any good?
The D5300 Video at 12,800 in low light are very good indeed

Here's some low light shot at 60p/50mbps and 24p/72mbps:



Are the Action (moving subject) movies any good?

The slow motion portions of this horse jump video were filmed with the GH3:



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Jason Berger
Re: Choose a HDSLR -- these are my criteria
on Dec 13, 2013 at 6:26:56 am

Was the slow mo footage of the horses colour corrected? It seemed flat to me and didn't really match the highs and the lows of the other footage.


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Roger Martin
Re: Choose a HDSLR -- these are my criteria
on Dec 13, 2013 at 11:23:21 am

I took this unedited 1080P 60 today with the D5300, hand held, not tripod allowed.
Your GH3 videos although much more professionally done, liked flat to me.

http://reels.creativecow.net/film/monterey-bay-aquarium-121213

I will post a different one if you wish


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Bill Bruner
Re: Choose a HDSLR -- these are my criteria
on Dec 15, 2013 at 3:03:03 pm

Nice sharp, clean image, Roger. Here is a similar handheld shoot with the GH3 at the Cal Academy in San Francisco (shot through the glass by emm over at CheesyCam):



By flat, are you referring to color? If so, that's a choice. Most people shoot "Natural" on the GH3, I prefer the more colorful "Vivid".

I am a big Nikon fan. My first DSLR was a D50 (it's still on the shelf in the closet :)), and I would certainly recommend the D5300 to DSLR video shooters over any Canon Rebel. But I absolutely need the GH3's viewfinder and a headphone jack when I shoot video, and I have a very hard time buying a video camera with the Nikon/Canon/Sony 30 minute limit.

Best of the holidays to you and yours!

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution


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Jason Berger
Re: Choose a HDSLR -- these are my criteria
on Dec 13, 2013 at 6:24:49 am

ALL my research is telling me that a hacked GH3 is visually superior to most DSLRs. I've read many statements that it's superior to all of them, but I'll not insist on that.

The GH2 and GH3 really is something amazing from the sounds of it. If I didn't have the issue with the lenses I'd scoop that up in a heartbeat.


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