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Reading Metadata between CatDV and Premiere

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Kevin Ryan
Reading Metadata between CatDV and Premiere
on Dec 27, 2010 at 1:55:41 am

I am an newbie to CatDV and metadata in general.
My assumption has been that once metadata is added to a video file, it stays with that file and can be searched and located by any program that reads metadata.
I use Premiere Pro CS4 and I have a trial version of CatDV 8.0.
When I add metadata to an avi file in Premiere Pro, I cannot get CatDV to see this metadata. And visa versa, metadata added in CatDV doesn't seem to show up in the metadata panel in Premiere.
I work at a small local government video department.
My hope was to start adding metadata keywords to all our video assets,
and use a product like CatDV to search for and preview assets.
The system we use now is just the search function in windows.
We name files with a string of keywords.
When we search,we get back a list of original video files and
look at them with vst player. When we see what we like, we copy original into folder on our local array for use in our project.

Kevin Ryan
Editor/Graphics
The Government Channel
City of Charlotte
Charlotte, NC


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Kevin Duggan
Re: Reading Metadata between CatDV and Premiere
on Dec 27, 2010 at 2:01:30 pm

HI Kevin
you wrote ."My assumption has been that once metadata is added to a video file, it stays with that file and can be searched and located by any program that reads metadata."

This assumption is incorrect. What CatDv can do is extract the embedded metadata if present and write it to a Database along with any additional fields you may have added within CATDV plus the file path to the asset. The reasoning for this approach is simple. Imagine you have a million files , are we to open up this number of files to find out "whats inside them " this would be in-efficent and cause the OS to probably crash. What CatDv does in its server version , is check with the MYSQL database for all information it has on this particular file or files. SQL databases are optimised for this type of activity and the results of a query are returned very quickly. This approach means that files do not have to be opened and the network traffic is reduced to text and thumbnails .
With premiere you can drag and drop assets from the CatDv interface to premiere if you wish, however if your copy of Premiere supports FCP XML import you can also take the metadata over to Premiere as well.
This is a rather simplistic explanation but you will find a ton of other information within this forum.

Happy New Year

Kevin Duggan
CatDv/MME



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bryson jones
Re: Reading Metadata between CatDV and Premiere
on Dec 27, 2010 at 5:18:03 pm

Another side effect of that would be that any data transmitted would contain your metadata. I'm betting that there are some government agencies that would not like that very much.

"Data about the data" is often very sensitive and specific to the shop using it. So all metadata needn't travel.

That said, certain files allow certain fields to be written into the files.

Finally,if you could just write metadata into a file and then search in the OS, everyone on the planet would have an amazing asset management system built into their computers and this forum (or even the product perhaps) wouldn't need to exist. The reality is, we are years from that sort of system working just due to computing power alone, nevermind the privacy complications of a never-ending path of metadata.

The good news is that there's an amazing amount of good that can be gained from current asset management systems like CatDV. We can now implement, relatively inexpensively, a pretty amazing workflow for most areas of the industry.

bryson

bryson "at" hidefcowboy.com

hidefcowboy.com


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Kevin Ryan
Re: Reading Metadata between CatDV and Premiere
on Jan 20, 2011 at 1:56:02 pm

"Finally,if you could just write metadata into a file and then search in the OS, everyone on the planet would have an amazing asset management system built into their computers and this forum (or even the product perhaps) wouldn't need to exist. The reality is, we are years from that sort of system working just due to computing power alone, nevermind the privacy complications of a never-ending path of metadata."

Well I feel like I have been mislead by the industry then.

From Adobe’s website
"Adobe's Extensible Metadata Platform (XMP) is a labeling technology that allows you to embed data about a file, known as metadata, into the file itself"

From Panasonics website
"The key to finding the clips that you have in your archive is the Metadata.
P2 File-based workflow really offers the opportunity to change this, by allowing footage to carry information
that was planned from the very inception of the production planning stages and let it be part of
a living database Only the best footage needs to be saved (unlike tape-based systems), and the footage
that is saved is easily mined for reuse. The key to being able to reuse footage, and finding that
footage is the metadata and that makes for better profitability and efficiency in the production arena.
This truly is part of the Beauty of P2."

I was hoping that I could add keywords as embeded metadata,
sort of like timecode,and then be able to search for the keywords.
I feel like this is what has been promised by Adobe and Panasonic.
I guess CATDV is the closest I can get to that promise.

Kevin Ryan
Editor/Graphics
The Government Channel
City of Charlotte
Charlotte, NC


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bryson jones
Re: Reading Metadata between CatDV and Premiere
on Jan 20, 2011 at 4:53:14 pm

Let's take that panasonic example.

They aren't lying. If you use their format, all the way through, you will have that metadata. So for news shops who just shoot edit and archive P2, they have that metadata, ready to go, all the time. Now, to see that metadata and search it, you will need a tool like CatDV but it's there.

Adobe would like everyone to use their standards, right? Flash, XMP, PDF, they love making those. But the choice to standardize is seldom up to one company. Remember, even QT is Apple and Microsoft and others are not thrilled to use it.

If you stay in one company's product line, it all kind of works, but most folks can't (panasonic doesn't make editors and Adobe doesn't make cameras) so we need translation tools.

CatDV (and other programs like it) are sort of the best we have, for now. A way to read these competing company's metadata, translate it, and keep it in a transferable and search-able format.

At least until we go back to the days when everything you had in your workflow was one company. ;) Sony Camera, Deck, Editor, Monitors, Mixers and Speakers, anyone? ($$$)

But remember, even if this is difficult, it doesn't mean impossible and there are more great tools coming everyday to handle these issues. The growth in CatDV alone over the last year has been amazing to watch.

But yeah, sometimes marketing materials are less than truthful. Can you guys believe it?! ;)

bryson

bryson "at" hidefcowboy.com

hidefcowboy.com


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Rolf Howarth
Re: Reading Metadata between CatDV and Premiere
on Mar 3, 2011 at 6:14:57 pm

There are advantages and disadvantages to storing metadata in the media file itself.

The advantage of storing metadata in the file is that metadata is stored in the file (so it won't get lost or detached from its media).

The disadvantage of storing metadata in the file is that the metadata is stored in the file (so it's no good if the file is offline and you need to know which backup tape to restore it from, or if it's on a read only volume, or on a network volume and two people want to mark it up in different ways, or if you're dealing with file types that don't support embedded metadata, or if you have millions of assets and it's not feasible to read all that data over a network just to find one file).



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Laura Matta
Re: Reading Metadata between CatDV and Premiere
on Oct 20, 2011 at 4:35:29 pm

Hi,
I work in a small government archive and we are evaluating cat dv adquisition. We have some experience adding metadata to still images using IPTC. The issue is that not all applications may read metadata the same way. It could happen for example that what you write under "author" can move to "origin" in another app. We use AdobeBridge to index and a little free app to search called Kallimages.
According to different informations, as you say Adobe and Panasonic informs so, metadata can be inside video file container (avi, mov, etc) and catDV makes an sql data base using that data. Maybe the trial version of catDv does not allow to do so.
As we are thinking of using it, I would appreciate that you can tell me how you solved this issue.
Thanks,
Laura


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