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Very dumb newbie post concerning monitor set up

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Keith Sanborn
Very dumb newbie post concerning monitor set up
on Apr 6, 2019 at 8:10:20 am

Hi,

This is going to seem painfully obvious to most of you, but here goes:

Set up: Macbook Pro 15,3
Sonnet external Graphics Box with wx9100
BenQ sw271
Decklink Mini Monitor 4k in Sonnet box

I need to grade a 4k project in dci-p3 color space. I would ideally like to have my computer screen resemble my color grading screen, but absolute accuracy on the external monitor is obviously most important.

I have calibrated the monitor with occasional success using both iProfiler and Palette Master. Each creates a system level profile, the profile with Palette Master often fails verification, however.

When setting up to use Resolve Studio, am I better off bypassing the icc profiles? using one of the monitor presets (dci-p3)? using the stored Calibration on the monitor? I see that Resolve will allow me to use the .icc profiles.

The dilemma is this: when I use the display preferences set to the stored calibrated profile AND set the internal monitor setting to the Calibrated profile for DCI-P3, the monitor has a distinct green cast. Is this happening the because I am essentially doubling up the settings? or is it because theatrical projectors are a bit green deficient and this is some kind of compensation, or is it a deficiency in my monitor?

If I use the straight output from the Decklink Mini Monitor 4k and then change the settings on the monitor to either the DCI-P3 preset or my calibrated dci-p3 preset, the image looks green and at best the colors seem washed out compared to the retina display on my mac.

In terms of matching the internal display to the exernal one, I get the closest results by using identical .icc settings for both, and setting the monitor to sRGB.

I am likely mixing apples and oranges. Could someone either:

1. Tell me what I should do, or
2. Direct me to a reference so that I can at least know how to formulate a more intelligent, if basic question.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Keith Sanborn


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Tero Ahlfors
Re: Very dumb newbie post concerning monitor set up
on Apr 6, 2019 at 4:13:30 pm

If you need absolute accuracy in DCI P3 then you should rent a proper grading theatre for the project.


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Keith Sanborn
Re: Very dumb newbie post concerning monitor set up
on Apr 6, 2019 at 5:00:54 pm

Thanks. Not in the budget.

As you can see the grading monitor is the weak link in the chain, but I'm surprised such an obvious question hasn't been covered already. Perhaps it has. Any associated links would be helpful.

Maybe most people in this list are working in facilities where the engineers have taken care of all these little details for them. Hey engineers! anyone out there?

Keith


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Joseph Owens
Re: Very dumb newbie post concerning monitor set up
on Apr 6, 2019 at 7:28:34 pm

Trying to cross colorspaces (especially with a relatively consumer-level setup) is always going to be a simulation, as Tero alludes. Disregard the DCI-P3 colorspace for your grade. WHAAAAAAAAT!?!??!??!

Choose a Universal colorspace (*A.C.E.S*) and choose your Input/Output Transforms for your system. Grade in cct. You will be closer with your final DCI-P3 output (agree there may be tweaks if you do finally get to see it in a true P3 Display Reference) - but a monitored 709-mediated session will get you far closer with a very accurately calibrated judgement screen than a poor approximation with an economy setup/emulation mode. This is what ACES is designed to do.

Because the brochure says a display "covers" a certain gamut doesn't mean it is doing it accurately. Remember a "fair ball" can be anywhere between first and third.

jPo, CSI

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Keith Sanborn
Re: Very dumb newbie post concerning monitor set up
on Apr 7, 2019 at 2:53:08 am

Thanks for your response.

I get the point about playing to the monitor's strengths, rather than scratching my head about its limits and weaknesses. If I understand you correctly, you are saying I should:

Set my Mac Display Preferences to A.C.E. for both the internal monitor on my laptop and my "grading" monitor, but then I lose you:

Not sure what you mean by "choose your Input/Output Transforms for your system. Grade in cct… a monitored 709-mediated session will get you far closer with a very accurately calibrated judgement screen than a poor approximation with an economy setup/emulation mode."

In practical terms, does that mean tick the "Use Display Preferences" box in the preferences in Resolve?

And set my monitor to its calibrated Rec. 709 color space?

I'm asking something really basic here.

I very much appreciate your help.

Keith


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Joseph Owens
Re: Very dumb newbie post concerning monitor set up
on Apr 8, 2019 at 7:29:16 pm

[Keith Sanborn] "In practical terms, does that mean tick the "Use Display Preferences" box in the preferences in Resolve?
And set my monitor to its calibrated Rec. 709 color space?"


No, this has nothing to do with your Display Preferences, Mac(?) color management, LUTs or other General Preferences ettings.

In Color Management, you would invoke ACES cct color science and then you would see the IDT/ODT preferences options light up. Within those menus, you can set up a default Input Transform for your media (and can change it on a source-clip basis if you have a mix of encoded material) and then your Output Transform -- that is where you match the color value placements to agree with your intended output / display. This is basically how you create a more or less Universal Master that is eligible for export in a number of colorspaces. That is the whole intent of ACES color management beyond unifying a common framework that can contain any current and future value placement.

ACES is a kind of large black box that you put your media into, then transformed according to defined parameters to sit in that Universal Space. The ODT's are a way of looking at it through different portholes (different colorspaces; 709, P3, &c.) In your case, shovel in your source data, identify it for the appropriate ACES interpretation, and then decide which *lens* you want to look at it with. In your case, 709, because that is what your judgement monitor is designed and hopefully characterized for.

jPo, CSI

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Keith Sanborn
Re: Very dumb newbie post concerning monitor set up
on Apr 9, 2019 at 2:58:33 am

Thanks for your patience. I have some homework to do about Color Management in Resolve. I was a bit confused since ACES CG Linear is also a Mac Display Preferences choice.

So, ACES cct color science, is basically a kind of higher level language capable of describing many, all, or most color spaces and can act to interpret them, depending on what you put in and what you want to go out. It acts as a kind of translator.

Thanks again,

Keith


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Joseph Owens
Re: Very dumb newbie post concerning monitor set up
on Apr 9, 2019 at 8:26:55 pm

[Keith Sanborn] "ACES cct color science, is basically a kind of higher level language capable of describing many, all, or most color spaces and can act to interpret them,"

You are sort of turning the boat around in the right direction, but not really. The Academy Color Encoding System is a defined framework that offers a universal basis for describing any current or future media encoding format. How you choose to display or encode the media for release is left to the distributor to determine. It is not a language per se but an independent playing field. As a Sports metaphor, you could play soccer, football, baseball, motor racing, polo, yacht regattas, or unlimited pylon air racing in this particular arena. Just tell the stadium manager how you want the seating to be arranged.

For colorgrade, the "cct" version inserts a "toe" behaviour that biases the media response toward a filmic "dark" response that fitgs better with human expectations. There is also a "cg" version that visual effects finds usual.

Chatty, but a reasonable start for more reading: https://wolfcrow.com/what-is-aces-academy-color-encoding-system/

plus more text available on the web than a human can possibly read in a lifetime.

jPO, CSI

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Glenn Sakatch
Re: Very dumb newbie post concerning monitor set up
on Apr 14, 2019 at 5:12:16 pm

Joe has always had a great way of equating some of these ideas into everyday language...but i might have a new favourite now with "Remember a "fair ball" can be anywhere between first and third."

I will be using that one at some point in the suite.

Glenn


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