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30/60p into 24p timeline yielding choppy playback

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Duke Sweden
30/60p into 24p timeline yielding choppy playback
on Sep 7, 2018 at 9:39:15 am

I've followed the proper steps, created a project with everything set to 24p, dropped, on two different timelines, a 30p and a 60p clip, and set "Retime" to Nearest, but the results are choppy. Is that to be expected or am I doing something wrong?

Dell XPS 8920
Intel i7 core 7700 build
GeForce GTX 1050ti
32 Gigs of RAM
3 7200 RPM SATA Drives
Windows 10 64-bit
DaVinci Resolve 14.3


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Tero Ahlfors
Re: 30/60p into 24p timeline yielding choppy playback
on Sep 7, 2018 at 9:53:08 am

Page 108 in the manual.


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Duke Sweden
Re: 30/60p into 24p timeline yielding choppy playback
on Sep 7, 2018 at 11:18:18 am

Thanks, Tero but that's for slo-mo/fast-mo, not conforming 30 or 60p to 24p. But I'll try the other options. Nearest doesn't do the trick. I will report back, meine kapitan!

Dell XPS 8920
Intel i7 core 7700 build
GeForce GTX 1050ti
32 Gigs of RAM
3 7200 RPM SATA Drives
Windows 10 64-bit
DaVinci Resolve 14.3


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Tero Ahlfors
Re: 30/60p into 24p timeline yielding choppy playback
on Sep 7, 2018 at 11:24:38 am

[Duke Sweden] "but that's for slo-mo/fast-mo"

"These settings determine the default state for all retiming and speed change effects, including when clips are in mixed frame rate timelines."


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Duke Sweden
Re: 30/60p into 24p timeline yielding choppy playback
on Sep 7, 2018 at 11:32:54 am

Well, anyway, I tried all the recommended settings. It's smoother now but it still looks like 60p so my next question, and I'm really looking for your opinion, not a set rule, but if I want a 24p look am I better off just shooting in 24p? I don't see any difference quality wise. The only reason I even attempted this is, I get the best AF results shooting in 30 (29.976) fps (remember, I'm a one man band, so I have to use AF) so if I could get a satisfactory result by comforming it to 24p that would be great. Otherwise, I'll have to settle for shooting my backyard masterpieces in 30p and living with it.

Dell XPS 8920
Intel i7 core 7700 build
GeForce GTX 1050ti
32 Gigs of RAM
3 7200 RPM SATA Drives
Windows 10 64-bit
DaVinci Resolve 14.3


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Tero Ahlfors
Re: 30/60p into 24p timeline yielding choppy playback
on Sep 7, 2018 at 11:48:25 am

Putting an offspeed clip in a 24fps timeline doesn't make it look like it's been shot at 24fps although it is running in 24fps (frame drops or blending included).


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Duke Sweden
Re: 30/60p into 24p timeline yielding choppy playback
on Sep 7, 2018 at 12:28:41 pm

Right. I'm better off just shooting at 30p. Thanks Tero.

Dell XPS 8920
Intel i7 core 7700 build
GeForce GTX 1050ti
32 Gigs of RAM
3 7200 RPM SATA Drives
Windows 10 64-bit
DaVinci Resolve 14.3


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Paul Carlin
Re: 30/60p into 24p timeline yielding choppy playback
on Sep 14, 2018 at 6:22:08 pm

Obviously, 30 frames don't fit into a 24 frame timeline. Every fifth source frame will need to be lost, causing jerky movement.

Nearest does exactly that. It uses the nearest frame. 30/24 = 1.25, therefore the source frames needed would be 1.25, 2.5, 3.75, 5. Rounded to the nearest frames, that would be 1, 2, 4, 5. Notice it skips frame 3. This sequence repeats as the fraction 30/24 can be reduced to 5/4.

If you choose Optical Flow, then temporal motion estimation attempts to calculate what a completely non-existent frame 1.25 would look like by analyzing the movement in the images from one frame to the next. This is not perfect science, especially in areas of conflicting motion (think "car driving past a picket fence"). So the results are sometimes good, but mostly crap, and you would not attempt to rely on this for an entire project. Blend simply blends the two adjacent frames. The third frame (2.5) would be a 50%/50% mix of frames two and three, which also would look like crap (unless your entire project is a documentary of slow moving snails).

If you don't want your project to look like crap, then set your timeline to the same frame rate as your source footage.

P.S. There are third-party tools for dealing with 30i (59.94) and 30p footage inside a 24p timeline. Check out FRAMES by Red Giant Software, part of the Shooter Suite. However, for all the same reasons above, you are still going to end up with different degrees of crap.


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