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Ben Edwards
scaled legal video
on May 19, 2013 at 11:58:51 pm

Hi, I have been trying to work out how to deliver broadcast safe video, I found the below in the manual but cant find the 'drop' down on the deliver page. Where exactly is it?

Ben

"Output Data Level Settings in the Deliver Page

Finally, there’s one last set of data level settings, available in the Render Settings list, within the Format group. It’s the “Set to video or data level” pop-up menu. It’s there to give you the ability to convert the data level of your rendered output, if necessary.

All media is output using a single data level, depending on your selection. There are three options:
* Automatic: The output data level of all clips is set automatically based on the codec you select to render to in the “Render to” pop-up menu.
* Normally scaled legal video: All clips are rendered as normally scaled.
* Unscaled full range data: All clips are rendered as full range."

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Ben Edwards - Freelance Picture Editor
http://www.funkytwig.com

i5 550, Windows 7 / Mac Lion, Nvida 550 Ti, 8GB Mem


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Peter Chamberlain
Re: scaled legal video
on May 20, 2013 at 1:44:59 am

Set to video or data levels is now in the Output section, 7th item from the top of the page.
Peter


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Ben Edwards
Re: scaled legal video
on May 20, 2013 at 1:52:06 pm

Peter, thanks a lot, it was late and I guess I was not concentrating;).

Ben

--
Ben Edwards - Freelance Picture Editor
http://www.funkytwig.com

i5 550, Windows 7 / Mac Lion, Nvida 550 Ti, 8GB Mem


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Joseph Owens
Re: scaled legal video
on May 20, 2013 at 1:41:39 pm

how to deliver broadcast safe video,

Not really an option. The linear broadcast setting is intended to export 709HD where the image values take into account the Y'CbCr 64-940 (10-bit) range for 0-100 IRE, whilst (yes, whilst) full scale is really intended for image sequence (dpx, tiff cin, etc.) RGB workflows. Where this gets confusing is ProRes 4444 which can be either Y'CbCr or RGB+, and no real way of flagging that.

Scaling also includes a gamma characteristic, which, if executed incorrectly cannot be solved with a simple black/white adjustment, since the entire image has also had a curve applied to it inappropriately.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Ben Edwards
Re: scaled legal video
on May 22, 2013 at 9:25:51 pm

Joseph,

Thanks for that, so basically you are saying there is no simple way to get resolve to output broadcast safe video. From my understanding Broadcast safe is where white levels are a max of 1000 (100%), and there is not too much of any given colour.

Does the 'Normally scaled legal video' help at all with this, should I use it?

So I guess the best bet (apart from grading properly) is to use the Broadcast safe filter in the NLE (i.e. FCP 7)?

Just to clarify the main output for this project is DVD, although it is being shown on a big screen in Bristol (UK). The later may not be particularly relevant as we are talking a very large not massively high quality screen. Broadcast safe seemed a good way to go is it should be 'safe' for most things.

Ben

--
Ben Edwards - Freelance Picture Editor
http://www.funkytwig.com

i5 550, Windows 7 / Mac Lion, Nvida 550 Ti, 8GB Mem


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Joseph Owens
Re: scaled legal video
on May 23, 2013 at 2:11:49 pm

Thanks for that, so basically you are saying there is no simple way to get resolve to output broadcast safe video. From my understanding Broadcast safe is where white levels are a max of 1000 (100%), and there is not too much of any given colour.


The simple way is to leave the settings to "Auto", which seems to be working properly after a little kerfuffle a couple of years ago.

I don't know about "1000" --- if that corresponds to 100 IRE +/- 2 IRE, then that is generally the accepted maximum for luminance. "Not too much of any given colour" is not usually how SMPTE describes things. The only meaningful discussion anyone can have regarding broadcast safe is within the context of a true Y+C baseband composite environment, and even that is really only truly relevant to analog transmission. Today, with numerical digitized transmission, it is extremely difficult to generate Out-of-Gamut values, when 64-940 is so clearly defined as the outer boundaries of component values. Where the real violations occur, more and more, is in crap encoding on cheap hardware.

I do know individuals who rely on the FCP "legalizer", but be aware that it has its limitations, does nothing in the blacks for chroma undershoot, and ignores the first and last line of every frame.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Ben Edwards
Re: scaled legal video
on May 23, 2013 at 4:00:21 pm

Joseph,

Thanks again for taking the time to respond to me. Not to much of any colour Was my reference to using Vectoscape, sorry, not very profesional language;).

Should I always ensure there is nothing above 1000 on the resolve Waveform monitor?

Are there any books/articles you can point me to describing how I should ensure my grading is 'legal'/broadcast safe.

Ben

--
Ben Edwards - Freelance Picture Editor
http://www.funkytwig.com

i5 550, Windows 7 / Mac Lion, Nvida 550 Ti, 8GB Mem


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Bill Ravens
Re: scaled legal video
on May 24, 2013 at 1:14:56 pm

I think a little care must be taken to assume Full Range is only for images imported as RGB.My experience has been that if I bring footage into Resolve with the auto setting....and that footage has super blacks and super whites, by the time I grade it in Resolve and export/import into Avid, I've inadvertently clipped the super values. Admittedly, there's a lot of steps involved in this workflow that can result in clipped errors, but, after a lot of testing, I've concluded the safest practice is to i/o to Resolve with "Full Range" as the default option.



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William Edwards
Re: scaled legal video
on May 31, 2013 at 2:08:58 pm

Here's a thread I started on this subject months ago:

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/277/21720

To get really real no-problems broadcast, you should put it through a legalizer. But I always put my quicktimes through normally scaled legal video.


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Taivo Glumov
Re: scaled legal video
on Jun 23, 2013 at 11:43:59 pm

Bill Ravens wrote:
" think a little care must be taken to assume Full Range is only for images imported as RGB.My experience has been that if I bring footage into Resolve with the auto setting....and that footage has super blacks and super whites, by the time I grade it in Resolve and export/import into Avid, I've inadvertently clipped the super values. Admittedly, there's a lot of steps involved in this workflow that can result in clipped errors, but, after a lot of testing, I've concluded the safest practice is to i/o to Resolve with "Full Range" as the default option."

I noticed jus the opposite: if I "deliver" (export) from DaVinci Resolve with a setting set to "Unscaled Full Range Data " and import that material to Avid then Avin actually clips (cuts off) all data exceeding 709 levels resulting in considerable loss of quality.
When the output of Resolve on Delivery page is set to "Normally scaled legal video" then the video levels are looking just compressed into 709 range and not clipped.
When the output of Resolve on Delivery page is set to "Auto" then the levels are actually slightly higher then 709 specs and occupy range up to 1024 data levels.


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