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Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?

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MichaelMaier
Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Feb 28, 2013 at 9:43:48 pm

Hi,

I want to finally move on to Resolve. But I would like to know if I can use one of my CRT broadcast monitors with it. I don't want to use a computer LCD and I have heard the odd recommendation for plasmas, but I also think they are not appropriate. I have a BVM-20G1E, a PVM-20L4 and a PVM-20L5.
I know they are not full HD but some of them are 900 lines, which is sharp enough for that size. I will not be judging focus on them, although they are more than sharp enough for that too. I have a Blackmagic Decklink SDI and I could send the signal that way to them.
Is it a viable solution? I would think that this is better than going the computer LCD(Dreamcolor) or plasma way at least?

Keep in mind that I'm not a Colorist and do not intend to offer my services as one. I just want to grade the stuff I shoot and edit and have a proper way to judge my grading. I don't do anything over 1080p. No 4k or the like.

Thanks for your input.


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Eric Hansen
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Feb 28, 2013 at 11:34:36 pm

Hey Michael

You can use these monitors. I have a 14L5 that I use to check for interlacing issues that i won't see on LCDs or plasmas.

BUT

it's incredibly difficult keeping these monitors calibrated. i would not suggest them for grading. back when CRT was the go-to for grading, many shops would calibrate them weekly or even daily. they drift very quickly. modern broadcast LCDs can go 6 months or a year before they need to be re-calibrated.

i wouldn't suggest using them.

e

Eric Hansen
Production Workflow Designer / Consultant / Colorist / DIT
http://www.erichansen.tv


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MichaelMaier
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Mar 1, 2013 at 12:54:53 am

Thanks. At the moment I don't have the resources to go for a professional LCD. It's either use the CRTs or go for something like a DreamColor, LG W2420R or Eizo. But as far as I know the first two are discontinued and the last one I have only seen mentioned briefly but am not sure how good they actually are. With a Plasma, I hear it's the same thing as the CRT. Needs to be calibrated frequently and have other problems of their own. What do you think?



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Juan Salvo
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Mar 1, 2013 at 12:58:36 am

While LCDs are remarkably stable there are very few I'd consider grading quality. Literally a handful of models. I'd much rather use a CRT than most LCDs. Particularly a BVM. It's true that they require recalibration, particularly as the tube and phosphors age, but I don't think it's a daily task at all.

If it's as a practice screen, I say go for it. As far as CRT replacements, FSi, Sony OLED or Dolby Reference are pretty good choices.

Colorist | Online Editor | Post Super | VFX Artist | BD Author

http://JuanSalvo.com


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MichaelMaier
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Mar 1, 2013 at 1:24:16 am

Thanks. How often you would say the require calibration? And what type of calibration are we talking about here to use them with HD?



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Juan Salvo
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Mar 1, 2013 at 4:25:25 am

I have no idea what kind of shape your monitors are in, and I'm not familiar with them. I was just making a general statement about CRTs. Like I said, if it's a practice monitor and you can get a signal on it. Go to town. You said you weren't doing professional gigs on it. If you know someone with the appropriate probe, I understand the BVMs generally are able to do a self calibration mode. I'd track down the manual for your model for more info.

Colorist | Online Editor | Post Super | VFX Artist | BD Author

http://JuanSalvo.com


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MichaelMaier
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Mar 1, 2013 at 10:30:19 am

Sorry, I didn't mean I would not be doing professional work. I am.
I'm just not offering my services as a Colorist. I shoot and edit all my stuff, which is paid work. I also color correct it to make it look the best it can. I don't charge any extra for color correction. Because I'm not talking about feature film type of color correction with multiple power windows, tracking etc. I'm talking about basic correction. It could probably be done inside a NLE, and this is where I have been color correcting all my stuff. But I want to start using Resolve so I can learn it. But it's definitely paid work. So it's not only practicing. I hope I was more clear now.

Thanks.



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MichaelMaier
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Mar 1, 2013 at 10:49:28 am

I know that the best would be to buy a professional LCD such as a FSI or a Sony PVM OLED. But at the moment I can't justify the expense. I could afford some of the Sony lower end non PVM and non OLED ones on BH's page. But at that point it seems I may as well buy any LCD TV or computer monitor.

So I guess what I'm asking here are 2 questions.

Can I use my CRTs with HD-SDI material in 23.976p?

Or would I be better off with a Plasma or Computer LCD like many do for budget grading suites?

I would have thought that the CRTs would be better. They used to be the standard for a reason. I know we have moved on and have heard the argument that grading on a CRT may be pointless because most people will watch the final product on a LCD or Plasma. But the point of the CRT was to guarantee a standard to which everybody could adjust their equipment to. If LCD consumers don't want to adjust their screens then be it. It was the same with CRT TVs. They were also not calibrated at home. But we still graded for a standard.

But if one of those 10 bit computer LCDs or a Plasma TV would be better than a professional Sony CRT I could try and get one. The question is which one since all 10 bit LCD panels I know such as Dreamcolor and LG W2420R are discontinued.
But I can't go for a full professional LCD at the moment.

Thanks and sorry for the trouble.



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Paul Provost
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Mar 1, 2013 at 8:18:27 pm

I would use your CRT as you already own them and they are worthless to sell.
I had a pvm 20 L5/1 and it worked great with an HD analog component signal in 1080 23.98 or 30i.
otherwise you need the hdsdi card which is as rare as a unicorn.
but you will be working in a proper 709 color space with good contrast if your tube isnt shot.
my pvm had an auto calibrate function that you could activate while feeding bars and tone - worked pretty well.
you could also get a tech to set white balance if you know someone locally. sony in LA would do it for $100! it wont drift enough to make it unusable btw...

http://www.4Kfinish.com | owner-colorist | Hollywood, CA
http://www.facebook.com/4kFinish


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Juan Salvo
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Mar 1, 2013 at 9:17:26 pm

I don't think the g20 he describes is HD. Also the "auto calibrate with color bars" function, just sets and adjust the input signal... not the display.

Colorist | Online Editor | Post Super | VFX Artist | BD Author

http://JuanSalvo.com


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MichaelMaier
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Mar 4, 2013 at 11:43:03 am

Message to whoever is monitoring posts. Why does it take so long to add posts to threads once they are sent? It kind of kills the momentum of the thread.



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MichaelMaier
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Mar 4, 2013 at 3:45:29 pm

Ok. I guess the moderators lost my reply to Paul Provost as it was never posted. I guess I will have to reply again.



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MichaelMaier
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Mar 4, 2013 at 3:46:15 pm

So the 20L5 is actually HD? Although I'm not sure mine is a 20L5/1. I have never heard of a /1. What's that? Do I need this specific version to work with HD 24p (23.976)?

Also, what is the main difference between a 20L4 and 20L5? Would the 20L4 also work?

Last, I know the BVM-20E1E and BVM-20F1U are probably the best CRT Sony ever made and I know somebody who has both sitting around without use who said I can have one of them, for free. Would that be better than all the others I mentioned?

Thanks.



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Paul Provost
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Mar 4, 2013 at 5:28:42 pm

I think the L4 is SD only. I think the L5/1 was the 23.98 capable one, and you probably have to test to see if it works as I believe model number plate does not clarify. As for the bvm, google for manuals.

http://www.4Kfinish.com | owner-colorist | Hollywood, CA
http://www.facebook.com/4kFinish


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Eric Hansen
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Mar 4, 2013 at 5:33:17 pm

if you've never seen 23.98 on a CRT, it's going to look weird and strobe, but this is correct. i would typically keep my L5 connected to the AJA Kona component output running at 1080i60, even for 23.98 material so the strobe wouldn't drive me up the wall.

e

Eric Hansen
Production Workflow Designer / Consultant / Colorist / DIT
http://www.erichansen.tv


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MichaelMaier
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Mar 4, 2013 at 5:43:12 pm

In that case, if feeding it 60i, does it still need to be a L5/1? Or will a normal L5 work?



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Eric Hansen
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Mar 4, 2013 at 5:48:54 pm

I don't know. all my HD-capable Sony CRTs could play 23.98 footage. but i don't know if they were /1 or not. Sony doesn't typically indicate on the unit if it's a /1 version or not. I had a Sony M2000/1 HDCAM deck and you wouldn't know it was a /1 by looking at it. after i received it and it didn't say "/1" anywhere, i had to call Sony to make sure they sent me the correct unit. if i remember correctly, it was an internal board upgrade. not sure what makes the L5/1 monitors different than the L5

e

Eric Hansen
Production Workflow Designer / Consultant / Colorist / DIT
http://www.erichansen.tv


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MichaelMaier
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Mar 7, 2013 at 11:13:54 am

Thanks. Do you know if all 20L5 monitors are HD capable? Because I was just told that you need some extra card for that and I'm not talking about the SDI card. I thought they all were HD?



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Eric Hansen
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Mar 7, 2013 at 3:37:26 pm

AFAIK, they can all take HD over component. my current 14L5 doesn't have any boards and i use component and it will see 720 or 1080. it just doesn't have enough lines to display full 1080, but you know that.

it does SD too :)

e

Eric Hansen
Production Workflow Designer / Consultant / Colorist / DIT
http://www.erichansen.tv


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MichaelMaier
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Mar 7, 2013 at 4:05:56 pm

Sure it's not HD resolution. But 800 lines in a small 20" size is enough. They say you need 24" before you need full HD. Actually it's 600 lines in 16:9. But it also becomes around a 17" in 16:9 so it works the same.

Good to know even without the SDI card it will do 1080 via component. Although I'm thinking for sure only 1080i and not 1080p.
In any case I have an old Blackmagic SP card that sends 10 bit component HD which should work with it then. At least I think.

Is there a special SDI card for HD or all SDI cards for the 20L5 will do both SD and HD?



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Amir Qureshi
Re: Can I continue to use my PVM and BVM monitors with Resolve?
on Jul 16, 2014 at 9:49:42 am

Hi Michael,

I know I am diggin out an old thread, but was just curious, what did you end up doing?

Thanks.


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