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Which High Quality Codec Output for WEB Destination Only?

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Jay Lee
Which High Quality Codec Output for WEB Destination Only?
on Aug 29, 2012 at 8:03:04 pm

We seem to have inherited a broadcast work flow of both exporting from Resolve and finishing 10bit Uncompressed format which we assume is a YUV. Since most of our recent work is WEB bound (not broadcast) and given the fact that our capture medium (RED and Alexa) is RGB native might it make more sense to stay RGB for output from Resolve, Conform and then final H264 compression? If so which codec would you consider?
Since we are finishing in Final Cut Pro we have read that it will render RGB in 8 bit only? Is this statement accurate and if so may it negate any quality benefits than staying with 10bit uncompressed?

All thoughts most appreciated.

Thank you,

j


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stig olsen
Re: Which High Quality Codec Output for WEB Destination Only?
on Aug 29, 2012 at 9:40:24 pm

Hi,

YUV depends on the codec. I guess that it is prores (YUV) in your case.
RGB input doesnt matter. Render RGB and compress to H264 and you should be fine.

Stig


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Jay Lee
Re: Which High Quality Codec Output for WEB Destination Only?
on Aug 29, 2012 at 9:46:18 pm

Thank you Stig.
Our concern is not so much the RGB out of Resolve or the resulting H264 conversion but the fact that we are adding titles and audio in Final Cut Pro with the Resolve renders. Its the final output from FCP that seems to be shrouded in mystery in terms of does it really render 12bit RGB??

J


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stig olsen
Re: Which High Quality Codec Output for WEB Destination Only?
on Aug 29, 2012 at 10:15:20 pm

If you render 10 bit RGB, and import it as RGB it will remap the levels to 709. The 10 bit will stay solid. I guess it will, at least it does in Avid. For broadcast it will be knocked down to 8-bit. If you export h264 for web I dont think it will stay 10-bit, but Im not completely sure. I guess this is something Joseph O knows more about. Joseph?


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Sareesh Sudhakaran
Re: Which High Quality Codec Output for WEB Destination Only?
on Aug 30, 2012 at 1:27:37 pm

Ideal scenario is to stick to maximum quality until final delivery compression.

If you're working with 10-bit uncompressed you can master in that format for future proofing. From the master, encode to H.264 with a bit rate that works for your web delivery model.

The web has no restriction on the color bit depth. You can create a player that can play back 10-bit video from a server and embed it to your web page. However, it would be only be useful if your clients have 10-bit displays.

YUV and RGB are not the same thing. The first is an encoding format, the second is a color model. Neither are color spaces. The color space you are probably working in is most likely Rec. 709, and there's nothing you need to do about that. You're set.

Hope this helps.

http://wolfcrow.com/blog/ - Workflow information and support for filmmakers, photographers, audiographers and videographers.


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Joseph Owens
Re: Which High Quality Codec Output for WEB Destination Only?
on Aug 30, 2012 at 3:25:22 pm

[Sareesh Sudhakaran] "The first is an encoding format, the second is a color model. Neither are color spaces. The color space you are probably working in is most likely Rec. 709, and there's nothing you need to do about that. "

That's a good environment description in a nutshell.

For the web, it might be confusing to introduce a term like sRGB, which is based on Rec709, but the reality is that the de facto streaming standard codec is H264, and you want as compact a file as possible, so the Y'CbCr codecs lend themselves to that right away. Both sRGB and Rec709 use the same primaries and aim for a similar white point, but that is not the whole question as I read it.

If part of your workflow is linking back to the original RED RDM files, or whether you are dealing with ProRes 422 Alexa source media, or 4:4:4, then you are already dealing with the original, non-transcoded, which is a good way to go. Beyond that, however, especially where Final Cut (up to 7) is concerned, then RGB does become an issue -- however, unless you really need full bandwidth RGB channels for VFX work, its a waste of drive space and processing efficiency. Once your grade is locked, then a lot of 8-bit is perfectly acceptable for moving forward, especially for web. We do still run into scaling issues (0-1023 vs 64-940) depending on intermediate conversions, and FCP deals very poorly with that.

There are legends around Final Cut dropping to 8-bit for RGB processing, maybe someone else can confirm that... I just don't use RGB unless forced into it with a dpx flow or dated Animation codec for a graphic that needs an alpha channel that someone has imbedded.

The reality is that that is not necessarily a bad thing as it is a trip wire for problems that will crop up in web compressions. Sorting out whether that's important or not depends on your monitoring solution and the quality of the preview.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Jay Lee
Re: Which High Quality Codec Output for WEB Destination Only?
on Aug 30, 2012 at 4:46:08 pm

Thank you Sareesh and Joseph. So good of you to take the time to reply with such depth. In a nutshell no significant quality gains in maintaining an RGB workflow from Resolve vs. Uncompressed YUV especially for a H264 WEB delivery.
We shall push in with 10bit uncompressed approach.

Regards,

J


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