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FCP X round-trip: Need different grades for different sections of a single clip

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Michael Holmes
FCP X round-trip: Need different grades for different sections of a single clip
on Aug 19, 2012 at 11:24:58 pm

I am using FCP X-->Resolve 9 round-trip.
I have a two cam project, and one cam shot several different closeups of different band members. The lighting is different and each close-up needs different grading. However, the shoot was continuous so there is only one clip from this cam.

I first tried blading the clip in FCP X, with blade cuts between the different closeups. Then I exported XML and imported into Resolve 9. Resolve ignored the blade cuts and only saw one clip, I assume because the clip is still intact in the original FCP X media files.

I would like export multiple sections of the clip to Resolve, for separate grading, and then export back to FCP X in one round-trip. Can I do this, or instead must I do multiple grades on the same clip, one grade for each close-up, and then do multiple exports back to FCP X?

There must be a very simple way to do this with one round-trip.
What is the best approach?


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Joseph Owens
Re: FCP X round-trip: Need different grades for different sections of a single clip
on Aug 19, 2012 at 11:33:30 pm

Classic group behaviour... ungroup the clips with whatever the command is... its in the manual.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Michael Holmes
Re: FCP X round-trip: Need different grades for different sections of a single clip
on Aug 20, 2012 at 1:27:21 am

They are not separate clips.
They are different closeup shots within one continuous clip.
When I bladed the clip into different segments, each segment continues to retain the same clip name, and Resolve sees only the single clip.
I need a way to separate the single clip into several "clips".


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Joseph Owens
Re: FCP X round-trip: Need different grades for different sections of a single clip
on Aug 20, 2012 at 4:06:10 pm

Pull up the manual. Beta9.

Read page 536. "There are other ways that linked clip relationships are formed, ..."

You have the option of creating a new "Remote" version for each split of the original master clip, or by creating Local Versions, also covered. It is important to remember that "Version 1" is the default version if the grade might become important for future use.

Become familiar with the use of Groups, starting from page 553. You can remove all clips from a group with a shift click on first-and-last, right-click and remove. Then all your split-created clips will behave independently, even though they come from a single source clip in the master timeline.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Michael Holmes
Re: FCP X round-trip: Need different grades for different sections of a single clip
on Aug 20, 2012 at 4:37:44 pm

I have read the manual in detail, and I am fully aware that I can save different versions and export them......I stated this as the alternative in my post. My question was, is there an easier way so I can avoid exporting multiple versions. I take it from your answer that there is no better way and I must grade one clip multiple times and export different versions. If that is the case, I can handle that.
Thanks.


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Joseph Owens
Re: FCP X round-trip: Need different grades for different sections of a single clip
on Aug 20, 2012 at 8:05:10 pm

maybe what you're trying to do is "commercial flow"?

Normally, only one version of each clip is exported.... or are you looking for Target mode? or...

I guess I don't understand what you're trying to do.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Michael Holmes
Re: FCP X round-trip: Need different grades for different sections of a single clip
on Aug 20, 2012 at 8:27:23 pm

I have one clip which includes eight different close-up shots of band members.
The camera never stopped rolling......shot one close-up, panned/zoomed, shot another, etc.

Each closeup needs to be graded differently.
If I send the entire clip to Resolve (FCP X round-trip), I will need to create 8 different versions (one for each closeup) and then XML out 8 times to FCP X.......unless there is a way I don't know about for doing it in one export.

I was hoping there is a simpler workflow for handling this. If the cam had been switched off/on between each close-up, I could round-trip 8 clips to Resolve, grade each differently, then round-trip the 8 back at one time. But, it is one clip, not 8.

Let me know if I am still not clear on the problem and I will give it another try.


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John Young
Re: FCP X round-trip: Need different grades for different sections of a single clip
on Aug 20, 2012 at 8:33:36 pm

How about working the whole clip eight different ways (one for each section) then using opacity to blend all 8 into one seamless clip.

What you are wanting to do is totally doable. I think it is just a matter of controlling the transition from one graded section to the next.

John


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Michael Holmes
Re: FCP X round-trip: Need different grades for different sections of a single clip
on Aug 20, 2012 at 9:11:12 pm

I don't need the transitions, John. The pan/zooms won't be used, just the individual close-ups.

Can you please give me a page number in the new Resolve 9 manual where it discusses simultaneously using different grades in different segments of a single clip?


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Joseph Owens
Re: FCP X round-trip: Need different grades for different sections of a single clip
on Aug 21, 2012 at 3:58:10 pm

So you must be sending the continuous camera original to Resolve as a single clip... I am not clear if you are attempting to razor the original in FCX or not and sending an XML to Resolve.

As an XML-flow project, you should be seeing two sequences in the Conform page. The Master Timeline contains all the source media as it exists in the Source Bin, uncut. There should also be a "cut" sequence, which would contain all your razor "notches" (what we used to call an event boundary in Renaissance, etc.). Opening the cut sequence in the COLOR page should still have those boundaries, but because the source clip is the same for all the events, they will be linked. You can break the grouping and grade them all individually as if they were independent clips at that point, and render them out so that they behave like independent clips (which they will be, in Source mode). You do also have the option of creating razor cuts on the timeline in the Conform page, which still need to be unlinked, or as has been suggested a number of times, remote or local versions.

If you only have a master timeline in Resolve, you can create a new sequence, which will be a clone of the Master Timeline, and the new one will be editable, as the Master Timeline is not.

There is absolutely no need to render multiple versions of the source clip to realize different treatments of the media within that single clip. Keyframes would also be an option, if you want to keep the entire clip intact as a single entity.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Peter Chamberlain
Re: FCP X round-trip: Need different grades for different sections of a single clip
on Aug 21, 2012 at 1:51:09 am

Hi Michael, in Resolve every grade is applied based on its source clip and we use timecode and other items like Reel name or File name to separate similar timecodes. In your case there is one clip so it gets one grade. This is ideal for many situations but clearly when you have one long clip you need to apply different grades. The way to do this is with grade versions.

You can split the clips in a number of ways to make separate clips, scene cut or manual split or XML, but ultimately by making a 'version' of the grade for each section of the clip will permit multiple grades for the one source clip. Leave the wanted version for each section active and render all the clips. The render should create one clip per section each with the correct version.

Peter


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Michael Holmes
Re: FCP X round-trip: Need different grades for different sections of a single clip
on Aug 21, 2012 at 5:22:44 pm

Thanks, Peter.
I would like to sure I am clear on how to do this.

In the Resolve 9 manual, on page 543 under “Rendering Versions”, it says:

"When the time comes to render your clips in the Deliver page, each clip’s currently selected version will be rendered. If you need to render a different version for a given clip, you can either make sure it’s selected in the Color page Timeline before you open the Deliver page, or use the Versions submenu in the Deliver page Timeline."

This suggests you can only render one version for a given clip at a time. However, below that it says:

"Additionally, the Commercial Workflow output option, located in the Deliver page, provides a method of rendering multiple versions for each clip when outputting your project in Source Order (as individual media files). There are two additional options in the Version submenus of each clip in the Thumbnail Timeline contextual menu that let you control which versions are rendered when you use Commercial Workflow."

So, this seems to say that I have to use the Commercial Workflow to render multiple versions at the same time.

When I go to page 574, it says:


"Use commercial workflow: Automatically renders every version that’s applied to each clip in the session, except for versions that have been flagged using the “Render Disabled” flag, found in the Version submenu for each clip in the Timeline. This option is typically used when you’ve graded multiple versions of a clip to be used for VFX work, and you want to deliver each grade as a separate media file."

So:
Am I correct that I need to use Commercial Workflow to render all the different versions at one time?

If this is correct, the problem I see is that if I go to the Deliver page and select "Final Cut Pro XML Round-trip" in the easy setup, the "use commercial workflow" under Output Options is greyed out.

I can make this option available by selecting "None" for the easy setup, but I assume this means that Resolve will then not output XML.

Is Commercial workflow inconsistent with XML output?

I'm am just trying to clearly understand how I do this.


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Peter Chamberlain
Re: FCP X round-trip: Need different grades for different sections of a single clip
on Aug 22, 2012 at 3:14:17 am

The easy setups are just configurations of the render settings so you can use None and commercial workflow to get all the versions.
Peter


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Michael Holmes
Re: FCP X round-trip: Need different grades for different sections of a single clip
on Aug 22, 2012 at 3:58:48 am

Outstanding, thanks Peter.


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