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Is it powerful enough for F65 4K Raw real-time grading?

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Shuhong Wang
Is it powerful enough for F65 4K Raw real-time grading?
on Jun 20, 2012 at 9:24:54 am

Hi,all

I can not find the hardware configuration list which is used now for 4K grading in this forum, so I post this message for help here. If this topic has already existed, I'm sorry.

My goal is to build a Resovle system for 4K real-time grading at full resolution, and the video clips is Sony's F65 4K raw data file.I got the recommended configuration list from Black-magic Design. According to the guide, I want to build a Resovle with 4GPU to do this job.
http://blackmagic-design.com/media/3358649/Resolve%20Win%20Config%20Guide%2...

The hardware list is as following:
Control Panel and Software
1x DaVinci Resolve Control Surface with USB
1 x DaVinci Resolve Software for Windows

1 x SUPERMICRO COMPUTER:
Computer: Supermicro SuperServer 7046GT-
TRF Black 4RU Rackmountable/Tower
CPU: 2x Intel Xeon X5650 2.67 GHz
RAM: 12GB (6 x 2GB) PC3-10667
ECC Reg DDR3-1333 SDRAM
Hard Disk: 1 x SATA 7200 1TB
DVD Drive: 1 x DVD-RW drive, SATA, Black
Operating System: Windows 7 Pro with SP1, 64-bit

Graphics Processor for GUI
1 x NVIDIA Quadro 4000

Graphics Processor for CUDA GPU
4 x NVIDIA Quadro 5000

PCIe Expansion
1 x CUBIX GPU-Xpander Desktop 4

Capture Card (4K output)
Blackmagic Design DeckLink 4K (not shipped now)

Is this configuration powerful enough for F65 Raw 4K real-time grading and playback? I'm green hand to build this system.

My questions are as follows:
1) Is this configuration powerful enough for real-time playback F65 4K raw file. From other guy's post, the debayer and decoding of F65 4K raw is depended on the GPU. so ,the CPU will not be the bottleneck. Am i right?
2) Is 4GPU powerful enough for grading 4K raw file in real-time? I got some information from other guys that when you install
four GPU card in the CUBIX expander box, only 3 GPU can be recognized by Resolve, is it right?
3) the bandwidth is not very huge if I process the grading with F65 raw file(only 1.9Gbps), so the normal disk array can be satisfied with my demand, we don't need to access the uncompressed 4K data in this sytem.
the signal workflow is that : (1)read raw data from disk array(1.9Gbps), (2) cpu send data to GPU (3)GPU does the decoding and grading, is it right?

Any suggestions or reply will be very appreicated.

wshvic.


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Sanjiv Patel
Re: Is it powerful enough for F65 4K Raw real-time grading?
on Jun 22, 2012 at 2:24:30 am

Anyone out their to answer this q


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Juan Salvo
Re: Is it powerful enough for F65 4K Raw real-time grading?
on Jun 22, 2012 at 4:49:03 am

Well first let me tell you from the sounds of it you're building a beast. So congratulations. Looking forward to seeing you squash the standard candle test and then some. ;)

First one major point... as stated in that very Resolve config guide:

"The NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 3072 MB is the most
powerful andlowest cost GPU cardfor Resolve. NVIDIA
Quadro and Tesla cards provide less performance to
Resolve but can be used if other software on the same
computer requires Quadro or Tesla cards."

Can't say this strongly enough. There is no good reason to get the Quadro 5000 as your processing card. Skip it!

Get the GTX580, save a boatload of money and get way faster processing.

If you really want to go nuts, and you can get a cubix with a serious power supply (1500W or more) or find a way to feed an extra separate power supply into the cubix box, I would recommend getting the GTX580 Classified edition, and put four overclock cards in there. You'll have the beastliest-beast ever seen by man! ;-)

You may also need to invent cold fusion to power the thing. :)

The standard GTX580 3GB card will still knock the doors off.

To answer your questions:
[Shuhong Wang] "1) Is this configuration powerful enough for real-time playback F65 4K raw file. From other guy's post, the debayer and decoding of F65 4K raw is depended on the GPU. so ,the CPU will not be the bottleneck. Am i right?"

You swap out the Q5000 for 4xGTX580s and the answer to "is it powerful enough?" holy guacamole batman "YES!"

If you insist on the Q5000 (and there is REALLY NO REASON to get these cards) then the answer is probably still a lower-case "yes."


[Shuhong Wang] "2) Is 4GPU powerful enough for grading 4K raw file in real-time?

Yes, for RED you would need a couple of RED ROCKET cards, but with F65 RAW, you'd have no problem... assuming your media could keep up.

I got some information from other guys that when you install
four GPU card in the CUBIX expander box, only 3 GPU can be recognized by Resolve, is it right?"


This isn't true of Windows systems... I think this misunderstanding comes from a Mac OS X software limitation of only being able to address 3 additional GFX cards.

[Shuhong Wang] "3) the bandwidth is not very huge if I process the grading with F65 raw file(only 1.9Gbps), so the normal disk array can be satisfied with my demand, we don't need to access the uncompressed 4K data in this sytem.
the signal workflow is that : (1)read raw data from disk array(1.9Gbps), (2) cpu send data to GPU (3)GPU does the decoding and grading, is it right?"


This is an over simplification... you don't mention anything about what your RAID config is or how you interface with it. But take the money you save on the Q5000 and invest in a decent array, Even with f65 you'll need to render to DPX or something (and noise reduction for example may hit an RT wall, and you'll want drives fast enough for caching) or you might want to interface with other apps (i sometimes send clips to mocha for roto work, etc) all of these things may have to fit into your workflow. So don't limit yourself with slow media.

A decent RAID5 SAS Array will not cost you very much and you can easily get 1100+MB/s which should cover you for 4K DPX. You may need to do a RAID50 config with two separate buses to ensure consistent speed.

In any case if you're just dealing with F65 RAW as source (and just playing back not rendering or caching) then any system capable of 420+MB/s should be acceptable. But considering what you are spending on everything else.. don't short change this part. It is critical.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

Online Editor | Colorist | Post Super | VFX Artist | BD Author

http://JuanSalvo.com


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Sanjiv Patel
Re: Is it powerful enough for F65 4K Raw real-time grading?
on Jun 22, 2012 at 3:26:55 pm

Thank you Juan

I need to setup for F65 raw 4k workflow
What raid do you like in the market for 4k workflow, any link please
Thanks


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Juan Salvo
Re: Is it powerful enough for F65 4K Raw real-time grading?
on Jun 22, 2012 at 8:15:32 pm

I generally work with fibre arrays.. which are generally much more expensive than SAS arrays but also have better sustained performance. There are plenty of 8GB FC chassis solutions out there. Also have rolled a dual channel Areca controller attached to 2x24 SATA III Chassis, which gives me about 1400MB/s in RAID50 using consumer 7200rpm HDDs. Enterprise drives might have marginally better performance.

Just to add since you asked for link as far as FC storage, these guys will get the job done for 4K:

http://www.promise.com/storage/raid_series.aspx?region=en-US&m=574&rsn1=40&...

Online Editor | Colorist | Post Super | VFX Artist | BD Author

http://JuanSalvo.com


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Sanjiv Patel
Re: Is it powerful enough for F65 4K Raw real-time grading?
on Jun 22, 2012 at 9:40:54 pm

What about http://www.proavio.com/is316js.html

I work in win7 hpz800 12 core 24gb ram avid mc 6 quad 5000

I own f65 with arri UP 16mm & 85mm

I am trying to setup post workflow

Any help in 4k raw f65 will be great

thanks Juan


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Juan Salvo
Re: Is it powerful enough for F65 4K Raw real-time grading?
on Jun 25, 2012 at 5:33:42 am

Was hoping someone with first hand experience on that hard ware would chime in. From the specs it looks like it would work, but I've never used it, so can't be sure.

Online Editor | Colorist | Post Super | VFX Artist | BD Author

http://JuanSalvo.com


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Shuhong Wang
Re: Is it powerful enough for F65 4K Raw real-time grading?
on Jun 25, 2012 at 7:00:48 am

Dear Salvo,
Thank you very much for your detailed reply, It's very clear and important for me. I will change the GPU card to GTX580.
1)About the RAID config, I prefer to choose a pcie2.0 x8 RAID5 disk array(16xSATA HDD), whose sustaied write speed could be larger than 800MB/s and sustaied read speed could be larger than 900MB/s. It is much cheaper than FC solution.
As you mentioned, when we need to rendering or caching, I need to cover the access speed for 4K DPX, if the video resolution is 4:2:2 12bit, the stream rate will be:4096x2180x30(fps)x3(byte)x8 = 6.37Gbps, am i right?
2)maybe I had a misunderstanding about the 4K grading, I thought when we did the color grading based on the F65 raw file, we don't need 4K uncompressed bandwidth. From your post, if I need do the color grading in real time, Resolve need high bandwidth(about 6.3Gbps) to process the data. Is it correct? so, I need to ensure the RAID array can provide consitent 6.3Gbps bandwidth. Am i right?
3)About the Resolve software version, I can not decide which one to select, Linux or Windows, or Mac? From other information, most people said that ONLY LINUX is capable of 4K at this moment, Linux is the first choice. what's the software version for 4K in your hand? I got the device quotation from Resolve distributor that I need pay $19995 for Resolve software for Linux and I need pay extra $29995 for the Resolve control surface. The Linux version is much more expensive than the Mac version. I haven't gotten the quotation for Windows version.


wshvic


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Shuhong Wang
Re: Is it powerful enough for F65 4K Raw real-time grading?
on Jun 25, 2012 at 10:10:05 am

Hi,
A second question about the requirements for the RAID performance.
When Resolve does the color grading processing, does it need to read and write the disk array simultaneouly at uncompressed 4K data rate?

Thanks in advance.

wshvic


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alex B Carr
Re: Is it powerful enough for F65 4K Raw real-time grading?
on Nov 25, 2012 at 7:24:49 am

So what kind of performance are you getting with F65 Material? i'm considering squeezing another 680 or swapping for a 690 into my setup.

I'm currently getting 24FPS playback in 1/2 Resolution. I only get 16-18FPS in Full resolution. 1/2 Res exporting 55-72FPS to DNXHD36 1080p. 45-55FPS exporting to ProRes 1080. I seem to get better performance in 10.8 Mountain Lion than Windows 7. Playback at 1/2 res on windows drops below 24fps occasionally. Pretty strange, because all benchmark programs show higher GPU performance in Windows. Most programs show 120FPS+, in 10.8 Mountain Lion I rarely get above 60FPS.

My setup:
x2 2.71ghz 8 Core Xeon. (16 Physical, 32 Threads)
64GB 1333mhz RAM
GTX EVGA 680 FTW 4GB
x12 2TB connected to ATTO H6F0.

CPU and GPU are watercooled, currently I need the other slots for Myricom 10GE, HDSDI, and ATTO H6F0 and H680. I use this setup on set and not only in Post. I'm trying to configure a valve release setup, So i can remove a GFX card from the WaterCooling Loop when not needed.



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