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Major Gamma / Color Shift Resolve -> FCPx

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Mark Linthicum
Major Gamma / Color Shift Resolve -> FCPx
on Jul 25, 2015 at 7:32:22 pm
Last Edited By Mark Linthicum on Jul 26, 2015 at 12:01:33 am

I am seeing a major color shift when opening files from DaVinci in FCPx. Anyone have a solution for this?I am surprised i don't see posts on this topic.






Thanks, Mark


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Joseph Owens
Re: Major Gamma / Luma Shift Resolve -> FCPx
on Jul 25, 2015 at 9:54:09 pm

[Mark Linthicum] "I am surprised i don't see posts on this topic."

Discussed every other day.

You are likely seeing a scaling issue where RGB / Y'CbCr full scale 0-1023 vs linear video 64-960 is being ambiguously flagged and misinterpreted.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Mark Linthicum
Re: Major Gamma / Luma Shift Resolve -> FCPx
on Jul 25, 2015 at 11:30:37 pm

"You are likely seeing a scaling issue where RGB / Y'CbCr full scale 0-1023 vs linear video 64-960 is being ambiguously flagged and misinterpreted. "

Thanks,

i don't know about any scaling issue, the footage is not being scaled.

Only saw ProRes to Avid MXF issues, not ProRes to ProRes and never saw a solution.
How is this remedied?

I have tried right clicking on the clip and changing the "Clip Attributes" "Levels" and the color shift is the same on all settings, the color is shifting from Red to Green, i have never had this problem before, seems to be a new issue ire Resolve 11?

Thanks
Mark

Thanks, Mark


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Marc Wielage
Re: Major Gamma / Luma Shift Resolve -> FCPx
on Jul 26, 2015 at 1:54:01 am

Add five seconds of bars and five seconds of 10-step grayscale to the head, then check the scopes. See how the program is interpreting levels, and adjust the settings accordingly. Also do a search on GAMMA SHIFT IN FCPX and see what you find.

Me personally, I think a better workflow is to do everything necessary in the editing software, then use Resolve last as final delivery. I try to avoid going back to the editing software if possible. But when you do, check the bars and make sure nothing is changing in terms of video level/data level. Note that dynamic range scaling and resolution scaling are two different things, so JoePo could well be correct.


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Mark Linthicum
Re: Major Gamma / Luma Shift Resolve -> FCPx
on Jul 26, 2015 at 2:23:01 am

Thanks,

Unfortunately it is not possible to finish in DaVinci, text and other graphics should not be color corrected with picture.

It seems that we have taken a step backwards here, I remember this being an issue from FCP7 to AE a few years ago but Apple solved this issue with Quicktime, now it is happening again. having to use bars to manually match color is something in the computer age we should not have to do and I do not believe it is possible to get a perfect match with the tools I have. Very frustrating.

i know Magic Bullet has a plugin that i think would to this automatically. http://www.redgiant.com/products/magic-bullet-lut-buddy/

i have to think DaVinci will solve this eventually.

Thanks, Mark

Thanks, Mark


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Marc Wielage
Re: Major Gamma / Luma Shift Resolve -> FCPx
on Jul 26, 2015 at 2:33:07 am

[Mark Linthicum] "Unfortunately it is not possible to finish in DaVinci, text and other graphics should not be color corrected with picture."
Yeah, I've been working in post about 35 years, so I would be aware of that.

You can actually add the titles within Resolve if you know and understand the Edit interface. The alternative would be simply to render the color-corrected background as a baked file, bring that into your editing program of choice, apply the graphics, then render those out and bring them back into Resolve without a color correction.

Read what I said again about checking scopes and using test signals, and see if it sinks in. Much of this has to do with Apple's implementation of ProRes color space within QuickTime. You'll find the same image in FCP7, FCPX, Resolve, different versions of Premiere, Avid, Vimeo, and YouTube all look different. Whose fault is it? Which is telling the truth?

I find the best course is to solve the problem and not look for blame. If you want absolute rock-solid images that don't change, go with 10-bit DPX uncompressed, which will look the same everywhere (assuming the monitors are calibrated to a known standard). The only problem is, dealing with image files this massive is beyond the scope of average user's hardware.


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Fred Jean
Re: Major Gamma / Luma Shift Resolve -> FCPx
on Jul 26, 2015 at 2:58:20 pm
Last Edited By Fred Jean on Jul 26, 2015 at 6:59:23 pm

But is it then a QT implementation or it has to do with the allProres itself devellopement.

My point is that, as Marc said, the massive storage
Required to handle images that keep consistency
Is beyond the scopes of many.

Why if "problematic" it became so popular
And more universal than Dnx?
And why if Apple is not bringing consistency with color space
And gamma in their own product people aren't just
Using other stuff?
We're not any longuer in a past when
A Avid seat was tens of thousands and the only cool stuff
Was fcp7 and windows was crap and unintuitive?
Now it's a different world.

Do we have, as users, buyers, to have to handle those kind
Of irritating B.S ?
So what's really happening with Apple? Is it QT implementation only?

I don't understand this industry to be honest.it's the wild westl, lots of proprietary formats, nothing or almost nothing
Is regulated and standart. Maintining consistency in the all pipeline is done at a high cost. Everybody has to becone an expert engineer in color science just not to screw it in the middle of the mess. Wrappers that shift gamma and do fancy stuff is just the tip of the iceberg.

https://vimeo.com/fredjeangasc


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Marc Wielage
Re: Major Gamma / Luma Shift Resolve -> FCPx
on Jul 27, 2015 at 7:20:24 am

Use a computer and do a search for QuickTime Gamma Shift. Tell me what you see. This is not a Resolve problem.

Professionals learn to anticipate the problems and come up with solutions for them. I often say, "much of what I do is not color-correction... it's problem solving." Gamma shifts are solvable and predictable if you know what you're doing.

You're far better off working on a solution rather than griping about the problem. It's as silly as somebody screaming about the weather. I'm the kind of guy who just dresses appropriately and grabs an umbrella just in case.


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Fred Jean
Re: Major Gamma / Luma Shift Resolve -> FCPx
on Jul 27, 2015 at 10:22:05 am
Last Edited By Fred Jean on Jul 27, 2015 at 10:31:58 am

Lol...you've nailed it: "problem solving"

Yes, it's not Resolve.
I agree that barking on the reality doesn't solve anything,
Like complaining about the weather.
We have to find solutions, period.
But that was not the meaning of my post, and sorry for
Being maybe unprecise because I'm french and my english
Is not really top.

What I was trying to express is this:
If Apple did a weired implementation
Why it became a sort of standart? And not so much Dnx?
This is not a "war" intent but an honest question.

Marc, I'm new in this business and still have a lot to learn.
As you imagine, the QT shift and unconsistancy is one of
The sins I had to learn to solve and yeah, internet is plagued
With this topic .
But to be honest, when one enters this industry and in the learning
Curve, sometimes it's demoralising and you just want to
Send everythibg to hell because it' like entering into an enormous
Mess. And as you point, it's problem solver more than color.
I started to realise how little standardized is this industry and
For a newcommer it's puzzling.

I've learned how to deal with the QT crap. I had to, like everyone has to.
But what I don't get, it's the backstage. Why Apple has not
Brought a cure knowing the problem from eons?
So yes, barking on things that are what they are is pointless,
But I'm just trying to understand the reasons of such a mess.
Look at internet, just this website for ex. Go in any forum
And watch the threads tittles. 80% are things like: media does
Not relink, color gamut issues, gamna sins, unconsityency
In the workflow...etc etc...is it that acceptable in any other industry?
In other words: this is an enormous mess. And the people who
Really know are a few. As a newcommer, I'm trying to read
The most experienced and sometimes it's not easy to figure out
Who knows and who seems to know but doesn't.
So instead of spending 8 hours learning the task itself, I spend
An incredible amount of hours in internet just to solve problems
That shouldn't be problems if this business was not the mess it is.

Take Aces for ex. I applaude. But then, who realky uses Aces
To date? Still very few. And it's not for everyone because
One has to really know what he is doing.
I can't give myself for satisfy using the exr Red implemented
And I remember gazillion of threads on R3d with Aces that were
False information. In the end, no idt with R3d because I finaly
Falled on a Graeme post in the red forum.
And that, after reading tons of posts that were confusing and unreliable.
So yeah, we always end to fix
What has to be fixed, but when you just enter this business
Beleive me, it's not easy and sometimes not easy not to bark
On such mess.

Best regards.

https://vimeo.com/fredjeangasc


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Mark Linthicum
Re: Major Gamma / Luma Shift Resolve -> FCPx
on Jul 27, 2015 at 5:38:18 pm

[Fred Jean] "Yes, it's not Resolve.
I agree that barking on the reality doesn't solve anything,
Like complaining about the weather.
We have to find solutions, period.
But that was not the meaning of my post, and sorry for
Being maybe unprecise because I'm french and my english
Is not really top.
"


How can you equate the weather with software companies? Software companies change feature fix bugs every day! How do they choose what problems to solve? Usually it is because the user base is vocal.

Thanks, Mark


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Mark Linthicum
Re: Major Gamma / Luma Shift Resolve -> FCPx
on Jul 27, 2015 at 5:38:48 pm

[Marc Wielage] "
Professionals learn to anticipate the problems and come up with solutions for them. I often say, "much of what I do is not color-correction... it's problem solving." Gamma shifts are solvable and predictable if you know what you're doing.
"


Thanks for letting me know what professionals do, Maybe someday i can become a professional like you.

Thanks, Mark


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