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getting up to speed on Lustre?

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Sean Sartori
getting up to speed on Lustre?
on May 23, 2015 at 9:49:36 pm

Hi,

I primarily grade on Resolve but recently I got a request for Lustre. It seems a bit difficult to get trained, as its part of Flame and there are either youtube videos or the training center in LA for $2500, and not much in between, at least not at the moment from ICA or FXPhd.
Any suggestions? I'm going to try the training edition put out by Autodesk and just see if I can plow thru it myself, I've heard Flame family boxes can seem impenetrable.

thanks in advance!


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Marc Wielage
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on May 24, 2015 at 12:13:48 am

Not a great place to ask for advice on rival software. I have taken the class offered by Autodesk in Santa Monica, and they're very good out there.


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Sascha Haber
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on May 24, 2015 at 8:08:00 am

Lustre is so incredibly outdated, it's almost funny :)
And yes, you need a total different set of hardware for it, so you are better of going somewhere where people took care of the tech for you.

Resolve 11.3 - Smoke 2015 EXT1 - Sapphire 8
Colorist / VFX Guru / Aerial footage nerd
http://vimeo.com/saschahaber
https://dk.linkedin.com/in/saschahaber


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Marc Wielage
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on May 24, 2015 at 8:45:00 pm

[Sascha Haber] "Lustre is so incredibly outdated, it's almost funny :)"

I'm not so quick to call a piece of software "outdated" if the companies using it are still making money, keeping clients happy, and getting the work done.

I can think of several dozen major films that were done with Lustre in Hollywood over the last few years. All the Marvel films (several of which made billions of dollars), along with "Gravity" and ""Birdman" were done with Lustre, and there are entire companies out there whose workflow revolves around Lustre. And many people I know using it are doing so with just keyboard and mice -- no control surfaces at all.

I think it's more a question of using the right tool for the right job. If you have the time to do a project in Lustre, it can work very well, particularly if the staff is used to it and knows what to expect.

I think there are ways to make many different kinds of color-correction software productive, provided each has the toolset you need to get the job done. Resolve would be my pick most of the time, but I think it boils down to personal choices and preferences -- it's just one of several options available in the tool chest.


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Mike Most
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on May 25, 2015 at 5:04:41 pm

>Lustre is so incredibly outdated, it's almost funny :)

If Resolve hadn't been made free, you might not be saying that. Lustre is hardly outdated, even though it isn't even sold as a standalone product any longer. It still has a toolset that others haven't yet caught up to, and continues to benefit significantly from its shared architecture with Flame. It might not have as many users as Resolve (once again, that wouldn't be the case if Blackmagic hadn't made it free....) but some of those users are responsible for DI work on some of the largest motion pictures made today. The only way in which it's "outdated" might be in its sales/pricing model. In actual use, it's still a very high end tool, really rivaled only by Baselight in terms of precision and capabilities.


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Sascha Haber
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on May 26, 2015 at 7:11:43 am

Well, i was grading on a DaVinci and then on Nucoda when Lustre was still "the shit"
Also a Pablo was somewhere on the road but then Scratch happened.
And that changed everything.

I fully understand the power of an Autodesk environment, i had the pleasure to work in several more TVC based facilities, but as both of you stated, it needs the infrastructure and the highly skilled, experienced and trained staff to flourish.
My point was more the technical aspect running it on a home computer like most Resolve users do those days.

Resolve 11.3 - Smoke 2015 EXT1 - Sapphire 8
Colorist / VFX Guru / Aerial footage nerd
http://vimeo.com/saschahaber
https://dk.linkedin.com/in/saschahaber


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Sean Sartori
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on May 26, 2015 at 10:24:03 pm

Hey thanks for the flurry, I didn't know people held such strong opinions!

I'm a resolve colorist, and there is a facility that would like to book me that is running an Autodesk shop.
I guess I was putting some feelers out there about the learning curve coming from resolve, and if its feasible to try to work it out myself on the training edition. Ill try the flame forum as there is no Lustre forum?


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jake blackstone
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on Jun 8, 2015 at 10:00:55 pm
Last Edited By jake blackstone on Jun 8, 2015 at 10:01:55 pm

Sasha.
Despite your very strong feelings, Lustre is pretty much still "the shit". It's the main grading platform at Technicolor, which is responsible for countless tent pole and Academy award winners, like Birdman, The Avengers: Age of Ultron, Guardians of the Galaxy, Iron Man etc. The list is simply endless.
Incidentally, the first Alexa 65 feature also been done right now using Lustre.


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Marc Wielage
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on Jun 9, 2015 at 7:38:17 am

Small correction: Technicolor/Hollywood does have a couple of rooms with Lustre, but it's about 90% a Resolve facility. And there are colorists who prefer to use Resolve for features. Some of the rooms can switch out either to Lustre or Resolve, and it was that way at Complete Post as well.

It is true that lead colorist Steve Scott uses Lustre, since that was also the software (or at least similar software) used at eFilm. I think it's fair to say they could get similar results going either way.


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Mike Most
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on Jun 9, 2015 at 11:08:52 pm
Last Edited By Mike Most on Jun 9, 2015 at 11:18:59 pm

At Technicolor Hollywood, the Resolves are used primarily for broadcast, so yes, there are a number of them. However, the vast majority of the DI work is done on Lustre, as it is the preferred platform for most of the current lead DI colorists at Tech Hollywood. As for getting equal results, that's a bit debatable, because it depends at least in part on the individual colorist's grading style. For those who came from a VFX background (like Steve Scott) Lustre is generally preferred because it contains most of Flame's rotoscoping tools, a very heavily used feature for Steve and others. It may not offer the overall speed of Resolve, but it offers a degree of precision - particularly in terms of area isolations - that goes beyond what Resolve generally offers. So for colorists that prefer mattes to keys, it has some definite advantages, at least in terms of both programs' current incarnations. It also offers an arguably better interface for those who prefer to use a mouse or a pen to drive the program (as opposed to a trackball centric panel). The interface is designed for direct manipulation and is geared to allow for very precise control. This may not be for everybody, but for anyone with Autodesk experience, there's a lot of value to that approach.


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Anthony Harris
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on Jun 10, 2015 at 7:58:06 am

"Lustre is so incredibly outdated, it's almost funny :)"

When I first read that, I laughed...then I investigated the source of such a strong opinion. Then, I considered that person's experience, location, and knowledge of the industry - in Hollywood, where the post facilities for the biggest movies on the planet are still based.

Then I took that comment with a grain of salt.

The best colorists on the planet use Lustre, for a reason. Fact is, if you want to be one of them, you better learn ALL the tools. I go from studio to studio. Some use Resolve, some use Lustre. When I have my choice, I use Resolve - but if you think you can be a top notch colorist and only know one tool, you're wrong.


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Mike Most
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on Jun 10, 2015 at 4:26:21 pm
Last Edited By Mike Most on Jun 10, 2015 at 4:28:12 pm

>>but if you think you can be a top notch colorist and only know one tool, you're wrong.

I would amend that by adding "unless your name is Stefan Sonnenfeld or Steve Scott." Although I would also add that if Blackmagic discontinued Resolve tomorrow, Stef would settle on something else and move on. And so would Steve if Lustre disappeared....

As for "the best colorists use Lustre" I would also change that to "some of the best colorists use Lustre." That's a lot more accurate, as there are a lot of very good colorists all over the world, and a lot of very good toolsets. No one system has a monopoly on high quality results or usage on "A" titles.


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Anthony Harris
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on Jun 10, 2015 at 4:44:02 pm

Yes...every single one of your points are correct. You cannot only know one tool, unless you have the power to do so. Also, SOME of the best colorists use Lustre. Some of the best colorists use Resolve as well.

---------------------
Anthony Harris
HarrisColor.com


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Marc Wielage
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on Jun 13, 2015 at 3:48:41 am

[Anthony Harris] "You cannot only know one tool, unless you have the power to do so. Also, SOME of the best colorists use Lustre. Some of the best colorists use Resolve as well."
Very well-said, Anthony. I think ultimately, the quality of the work is down more to the colorist than it is the tool. Huge movies are being done on Lustre, Baselight, Mistika, Nucoda, and Resolve. There's lots of good choices out there. It's a credit to BMD that Resolve is as affordable as it is yet can still hold its own with the others.


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jake blackstone
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on Jul 20, 2015 at 9:33:27 pm

And let's credit BMD, that they had managed to distort the color grading software business so much, that even the best of them left scratching their heads trying to decide how to survive in this market. If it continues like that, there will be no Lustre, Nucoda or Baselight or Mistika, which would make for very sad world. I don't want to have a choice of one- Resolve.


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Anthony Harris
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on Jul 20, 2015 at 9:50:27 pm

I will say though, they couldn't distort the market if the tool was garbage. They distort the market because it's possible to get high quality results for a comparatively low price.

---------------------
Anthony Harris
HarrisColor.com


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Michael Gissing
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on Jul 21, 2015 at 12:39:27 am

The software is a minor cost compared to having a monitoring environment and ancillary equipment. Yes going to Baselight would cost more but it would only represent around 15% of my total capital expenditure on the whole facility.

Nice that Resolve has saved me most of that but by the time you cost in controllers, computer hardware and big fast drives, legacy broadcast tape machines etc.. it becomes less of a differentiation.

What it does represent is the possibility of democratising grading but really that doesn't have as great an impact on facilities setup for broadcast & cinema work as much as many imagine. Certainly the corporate and web markets but hey they were just using other colour tools in NLEs anyway.


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Joseph Owens
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on Aug 10, 2015 at 6:31:57 pm

[Michael Gissing] "What it does represent is the possibility of democratising grading"

Ughh...how I detest the use of the d-word in this context. Has nothing to do with any kind of consensual market participatory direction. "Popularization" is the term I am personally trying to pitch to those who want a term to characterize the disruption and dilution of a former business model that required a combination of financial and experiential investment.

Like everyone suddenly being cosmologists who think they can theorize about black hole theory and the fundamental structure of the universe because they've seen a sci-fi movie.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Marc Wielage
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on Jul 21, 2015 at 2:57:42 am
Last Edited By Marc Wielage on Jul 21, 2015 at 3:01:19 am

[jake blackstone] "And let's credit BMD, that they had managed to distort the color grading software business so much, that even the best of them left scratching their heads trying to decide how to survive in this market."
I wouldn't call it "distort," but I agree that BMD's "price disruption" philosophy follows Red and several other companies in drastically dropping prices over a short period of time. It's a benefit to some and a disaster to others, but I think it's inevitable and expected in a lot of ways.

As I've said before, look at what an Avid Multi-camera Editing system cost in 2000: well over $100,000. It ain't that now. Certain things have stayed very expensive, like lenses, but look at monitors. A BVM-32E was $35,000 15 years ago, and now you can get a better HD monitor for about half that. Hard drives have never been cheaper than they are today. And yet the prices for other things, like food, cars, and gasoline, still go up.


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jake blackstone
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on Aug 9, 2015 at 3:04:49 am

Marc. You're treating hardware products and software products as they interchangeable. They are not the same. Just look at BMD own case of grading panels vs Resolve. Panels price, after the initial 50% drop stays exactly the same since BMD bought DaVinci. At the same time, Resolve had been essentially free, because the only way to make it even cheaper is for BMD to start paying users to use Resolve. Essentially, if BMD was an American company, they would be breaking the anti trust law, mainly they would be guilty of Predatory pricing.
Here is the definition of Predatory pricing, which happens to match BMD's strategy to a "t" from Wikipedia.
"Predatory pricing (also undercutting) is a pricing strategy where a product or service is set at a very low price, intending to drive competitors out of the market, or create barriers to entry for potential new competitors."


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Mike Most
Re: getting up to speed on Lustre?
on Aug 9, 2015 at 3:33:10 pm

There are antitrust laws? I had forgotten since they haven't been enforced in the US for at least 60 years, unless you count the "breakup" of AT&T - oh, wait a minute, AT&T is back now and almost twice the size that it was when it was broken up...

Antitrust laws have been a joke in this country almost since they were enacted. When the politicians who are responsible for bringing suits under those laws are owned by the very companies the laws are supposed to constrain, you're not going to see very many instances of using them.


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