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outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?

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Chris Oben
outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 8, 2014 at 4:09:08 am

Is there a way, using split screen or another method, to see both the outgoing and incoming frames of two consecutive shots...

The best method I have used so far is to do a freeze on my grading monitor in its split screen mode. This works very well but is very tedious.

I think being able to jump from cut to cut seeing the out against the in is a very efficient way of grading. Premiere allows you to do this...

C.

Chris M. Oben

http://www.chrisoben.com


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Sascha Haber
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 8, 2014 at 10:05:45 am

Sure, just use the playheads or a second video track with a masked alpha output and a 1 frame offset.

A slice of color...

Resolve 10.1.4 - Smoke 2015
Colorist / VFX / Aerial footage nerd
http://vimeo.com/saschahaber


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Chris Oben
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 8, 2014 at 5:39:28 pm

Can you describe how to use the second track with one frame offset and alpha?

It seems like 'outgoing / incoming' would be a useful preset in split screen ...

Chris M. Oben

http://www.chrisoben.com


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Peter Chamberlain
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 9, 2014 at 12:33:13 am

You see this on edit page when in trim mode. two up or four up depending on mode.


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Chris Oben
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 9, 2014 at 2:37:22 am

Thx for mentioning that Peter. Could you elaborate on how to do that? The idea for me is to be able to look at one clip while adjusting the other... I'm not sure this is possible from the EDIT page.

C.

Chris M. Oben

http://www.chrisoben.com


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Chris Oben
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 9, 2014 at 3:07:39 am

ok. I remember some more advance playheads controls in V9 but I can't seem to find the outgoing/incoming frame functionality in V11 using anything to do with playheads. My goal is to see the outgoing frame and incoming frame simultaneously and then make adjustments to the incoming frame ...

Can you describe how to do this with playheads Sascha?

C.

Chris M. Oben

http://www.chrisoben.com


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Mike Most
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 9, 2014 at 6:24:06 pm

http://software.blackmagicdesign.com/DaVinciResolve/docs/DaVinci_Resolve_11...

It's all documented, if you would make the effort to look.

Of course, if everyone would actually RTFM, half the questions on Creative Cow would be unnecessary.


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Chris Oben
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 9, 2014 at 10:04:44 pm

Thanks for the link Mike. Sorry to have wasted your precious time. Just a note ... I'm not new to the software nor to this forum. I am also one of many Resolve users on the Beta team (I suspect you are too) I teach courses on using Resolve. My question is specific and not clearly documented in Alexis' extremely well writteguide. Don't worry I'll be sure not to ask you for help in future. Perhaps another user has some insight here.

Chris M. Oben

http://www.chrisoben.com


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Mike Most
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 9, 2014 at 10:31:20 pm

I didn't read all of the previous entries in this thread and misinterpreted your question. Sorry.

The simplest way to do this is to grab a still of the outgoing frame. Then you can wipe to it and adjust your incoming frame as you described. Hopefully I'm not misinterpreting again...


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Peter Chamberlain
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 10, 2014 at 1:41:34 am
Last Edited By Peter Chamberlain on Nov 10, 2014 at 1:43:12 am

Sorry, I read the question differently too.

You can use the frame fwd/back commands to toggle from one to the other, but you only see one at a time.


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Marc Wielage
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 10, 2014 at 9:13:09 am
Last Edited By Marc Wielage on Nov 10, 2014 at 9:13:58 am

[Mike Most] "The simplest way to do this is to grab a still of the outgoing frame. Then you can wipe to it and adjust your incoming frame as you described. Hopefully I'm not misinterpreting again..."

First thing I thought of. Any other method is just going to be too much trouble and take too long, especially if you're trying to knock out 500+ shots a day. My memory is also pretty good.


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Chris Oben
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 10, 2014 at 5:36:04 pm

Ok. Thanks for having a second look Mike. Sorry for the rant...


C.

Chris M. Oben

http://www.chrisoben.com


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Eric Johnson
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 10, 2014 at 8:10:43 pm

Check g474 in the manual, only because your reading it may give you a better way of dealing with you concerns than how I think you mean/want to deal them...

But the long an short of it, Rt-Click Veiwer and pick you preference for Split-Screen mode.

eric b johnson
online editor | colorist | workflow
http://vimeo.com/ebjohnson/colorreel


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Chris Oben
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 10, 2014 at 9:57:19 pm

Thx for idea Eric. Sadly there is no real way to do it in split screen it seems. For now grabbing a still of the last frame and comparing it the first frame of the next clip works but is too many key strokes to be viable for a 500 shot edit. I'll keep researching and trying. It's just such an easy way to work. I think if it were available many colourists would appreciate it - especially for Q/C'ing. These days we just don't have time to pore over every single frame multiple times. I don't use premiere for grading as a rule but this feature is incredibly useful to me...

C.

Chris M. Oben

http://www.chrisoben.com


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Marc Wielage
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 11, 2014 at 2:44:23 am

[Chris Oben] "For now grabbing a still of the last frame and comparing it the first frame of the next clip works but is too many key strokes to be viable for a 500 shot edit."

Wow, I've been doing it that way for about 30 years (or at least as long as we've had still frames in a color correction program), and it actually works pretty well, even for projects of many thousands of cuts. The other philosophy is to just roll through the scene and see how the two moving shots work against each other and whether the color naturally flows or not. If something sticks out, it's wrong.

Muscle memory, dexterity, and experience will get you there. It helps to use a control surface.


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Mike Most
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 11, 2014 at 2:49:42 am
Last Edited By Mike Most on Nov 11, 2014 at 2:51:00 am

Saving a still and wiping to it is the method colorists have used for the last 30 years (using dedicated still stores and a video switcher at first, and later the DaVinci Gallery), and for many shows that have a lot more than 500 shots. The key is to clean up after yourself. Once you have a match, don't insist on comparing every single outgoing frame to every single incoming frame if the shots are being re-used. If they matched 2 cuts ago, they probably match now. Resolve has restored and maintained the ability to use single keystrokes to recall the last correction and the "second to last" correction, even if you don't have the DaVinci panel set. That feature alone has allowed colorists to speed through narrative productions very, very quickly once the two or three angles being used are established. Speed has been a necessary part of the entire DaVinci approach for as long as I can remember (and I can remember pretty far back...), so you might want to try these time tested approaches before you decide that you need something more "automatic" to achieve efficiency.

Ooops, just saw Marc's post. Similar experience, similar conclusions. Great minds think alike ;-)


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Marc Wielage
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 12, 2014 at 11:47:50 pm

And of course, I agree 100% with Mike's post above.

I know of a very famous A-list director (whose initials are Michael Bay) who gets irate if any colorists show him still frames to match to. He has to see the cuts in context, and couldn't care less if the stills precisely match. For him, it's all about the flow. I totally see his point: I don't give a crap about the match as long as it feels right in the specific cut.

Side-by-side comparisons are nice, but I have had directors balk because then the image size is too small and they can't make a relative choice with a picture 50% smaller than normal. We had that feature for years and years in Baselight, and it's helpful for certain things but not always important in the grand scheme of things.


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Chris Oben
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 13, 2014 at 7:37:26 am

Marc - is that feature still a part of the Baselight toolset?

C.

Chris M. Oben

http://www.chrisoben.com


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Marc Wielage
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 13, 2014 at 10:14:19 am

Yes, the side-by-side comparisons are part of Baselight. But it's been awhile... I'm not sure if you can see the outgoing frames of one scene simultaneously on the screen with the incoming frame on the other half of the screen. I just used stills like I always have and popped back and forth.


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Mike Most
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 14, 2014 at 12:11:45 am

I would add that "popping back and forth" is the method that I (and nearly all colorists who I came up with) normally used. Split screens are visually confusing and a bit time consuming to bring up. The only time I really used them were to closely match a particular item in the shot - a product shot of a bottle in a beer commercial, for instance. For "normal" continuity matching in narrative work, I would usually cut between my current correction and a still, then massage the current correction (continually popping back to the still) until I walked my way into a perceptual match. The problem with split screens is that they usually lead you towards matching specific items rather than the overall "feel." That might work, as I said, in a product shot, but in narrative work, you're looking for a comfortable flow, not specific item color matches. After I decided the "flow" felt right, I would play the last few shots to see if it was all working, and build the scene and the show that way. Getting the feel right sometimes requires doing things that seem counterintuitive if you only look at stills, because overall shot flow is based on mood rather than specific balance. In a warm scene, it is immediately obvious if one shot doesn't have the same degree of warmth as the others, but it's not necessarily as obvious if you just look at each shot individually as a still and see that the waveforms line up. Continuity is about feel, not necessarily precision.


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Marc Wielage
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 14, 2014 at 5:46:57 am

[Mike Most] " Continuity is about feel, not necessarily precision."

I have been reminded many times by directors and cinematographers that lighting and exposure aren't all about scopes and levels and pixels; it's about emotion. To that end, I will often ask the client about the beginning of the scene, "what's the mood we're going for here? Happy/sad, poignant/hilarious, grim/frightening... which?" Matching the last out and next in is easy... it's the feel and the mood that's hard.


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John Tissavary
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 16, 2014 at 5:12:09 pm

100% agree, even with stills I have a tendency to toggle back and forth from a full screen still, rather than wipe a split except in cases you mention: matching specific shot elements accurately.


JT

John Tissavary
colorist
The Post Collective NYC


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Alexis Hurkman
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 17, 2014 at 1:35:14 pm
Last Edited By Alexis Hurkman on Nov 17, 2014 at 1:40:34 pm

There is actually a Split-Screen mode that automatically compares the previous two, current, and next shots automatically as a four up display, such that you can make adjustments to the current shot while monitoring all four adjacent shots. Moving to another shot automatically updates this four-up display, so you can move from shot to shot and always see a set of comparison images for grading. No still store required.

To do this:

(1) Turn on "Split Screen" in the top Viewer toolbar

(2) Choose "Neighbor Clips" from the split screen mode pop-up that appears

This is a full-frame, side-by-side comparison that you can toggle on and off. There are other useful split-screen modes as well to display other comparisons, such as my favorite, the "Selected Clips" mode that lets you see a comparison of all the clips you care to select in the timeline (up to 16). The full explanation is on p.474 of the user manual, if you want all the details.

http://www.alexisvanhurkman.com | http://www.correctionforcolor.com


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Chris Oben
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 17, 2014 at 5:52:10 pm

I agree Alexis. Split screen in 'selected clips' mode is very useful and one of my favourite features. Seeing up to 16 thumbnails is amazing. One of the reasons I like the idea of comparing the out frame to the in is for quick q/c.

Chris M. Oben

http://www.chrisoben.com


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Alexis Hurkman
Re: outgoing - incoming frames viewable simultaneously?
on Nov 17, 2014 at 6:21:28 pm

Ah, I got you, you want to compare the In and Out frames of the SAME CLIP. There's no control for that currently, but I can see why that would be interesting.

http://www.alexisvanhurkman.com | http://www.correctionforcolor.com


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