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Feature Suggestion: a 4th picture for scene cut detection

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Charles Haine
Feature Suggestion: a 4th picture for scene cut detection
on Oct 12, 2014 at 12:10:55 am

I'm finding myself using the scene cut detect feature more and more often lately for whatever reason, and it occurred to me that I would love it if it was 4 stills across the top instead of three, with the first still being the first frame of the outgoing shot. so it would be

FIRSTFRAMEOUTGOING | LASTFRAMEOUTGOING | FIRSTFRAMEINCOMING | SECONDFRAMEINCOMING

It would definitely make it more obvious if DV had missed an edit in between cuts.

Man, do I love this software.

http://www.dirtyrobber.com


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Sascha Haber
Re: Feature Suggestion: a 4th picture for scene cut detection
on Oct 12, 2014 at 9:49:00 am

What we really need in the scene detection tool is the ability to set a minimum value for scene length.
Try analyse some celebrity red carpet scene ;)
Every flash will give you a scene cut and no, sensitivity is not helping....

A slice of color...

Resolve 10.1.4 - Smoke 2015
Colorist / VFX / Aerial footage nerd
http://vimeo.com/saschahaber


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Barrie Williams
Re: Feature Suggestion: a 4th picture for scene cut detection
on Oct 12, 2014 at 2:23:58 pm

Sascha makes an excellent suggestion.

In scene detect , We really need a minimum length between cuts so strobing images don't create a huge number if pointless cuts.

I had a 30 minute program yesterday which detected 2000+ scenes when there were really only 300.


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jake blackstone
Re: Feature Suggestion: a 4th picture for scene cut detection
on Oct 12, 2014 at 6:02:17 pm

No need to reinvent the wheel. Nucoda already does it with aplomb flawlessly. I already suggested it two years ago, but for some reason it had been ignored. What I suggested is to use the temporal information, the same that is used for temporal noise reduction or flow motion. Combined with video level changes it would be simple to determine what is a true cut and what is a camera flash or a dissolve. And for a god sake, fix the bug preventing the joining of the wrong cuts in the timeline after the scene detects!


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Marc Wielage
Re: Feature Suggestion: a 4th picture for scene cut detection
on Oct 12, 2014 at 11:10:22 pm

Amen to everything Jake says.


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Joseph Owens
Re: Feature Suggestion: a 4th picture for scene cut detection
on Oct 13, 2014 at 4:53:48 pm

[jake blackstone] " fix the bug preventing the joining of the wrong cuts in the timeline after the scene detects!"

Not a bug per se, because that would infer there was some process that would allow for it, were it simply an option. It is a workflow issue -- scene detect is part of the "import" process, so the application simulates the creation of independent clips, which... cannot be "joined."

That's what's really wrong with the process, and its been more or less the same engine that daVinci has been using since the Renaissance. No, not that Renaissance, the one that came after the Leo.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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jake blackstone
Re: Feature Suggestion: a 4th picture for scene cut detection
on Oct 14, 2014 at 12:20:39 am
Last Edited By jake blackstone on Oct 14, 2014 at 12:32:08 am

I strongly disagree.
Resolve does scene detect the same way it had always done, by simply using detection of video level changes. Today there are ways of improving scene detection, which as I already had mentioned, competitors already do it and they do it much better. Just because that's how DaVinci always operated is not a reason to continue to do it the same lousy way. In case of Nucoda, Baselight or even much older software like Lustre there is no such thing as a separate scene detection operation. It is done using the same timeline and not some separate import window. For life of me, I can't understand the contention, that if the cut was done during the scene detection import process, somehow that cut is different from a cut done in the timeline. The cut is a cut, regardless how it was created and, if I want to get rid of a cut I should be able get rid of it without a needed to jump through the workaround hoops, a-la do scene detection, export EDL, then import EDL, get rid of a unneeded cuts etc...
Always trying to defend the indefensible is what helps to keep Resolve is so bug ridden (yes, this IS a bug) and colorist unfriendly...


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Marc Wielage
Re: Feature Suggestion: a 4th picture for scene cut detection
on Oct 14, 2014 at 12:25:25 am

[Joseph Owens] "Not a bug per se, because that would infer there was some process that would allow for it, were it simply an option. It is a workflow issue -- scene detect is part of the "import" process, so the application simulates the creation of independent clips, which... cannot be "joined."
"

That is an annoying problem. You'd think if both clips came from the same source file, and the timecode is identical on each side of the cut, there'd be no problem joining them again.

I seem to recall with daVinci 2K there was a way to set a minimum scene length. If you made it (say) 48 frames, that way you wouldn't run into 119 cuts on flashes and explosions. Animation was often a nightmare with auto-scene detect.

My cheap workaround for this process is to lighten the threshold so it misses more shots, and then I just reinsert the cuts when I play through the shot and see it needs a cut added, which I can do from the Color window.


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jake blackstone
Re: Feature Suggestion: a 4th picture for scene cut detection
on Oct 14, 2014 at 12:46:04 am

As I said, if BMD just slowed down a bit and instead of introducing 150 new editing features every year, just went over all main grading operations and cleaned up the buggy mess, Resolve would become a much better color grading platform. Improving or allowing custom mapping, simplifying the caching and to actually getting it to work, improving scene detection, implementing Log grading instead of Video Log grading, improving sharpening, instead of something that looks like coring, better metadata handling, that is preventing proper Color-tracing are just a few of the serious color grading issues , that needs to be addressed ASAP. Alas, I afraid, will just see more editing features before we'll see any color grading improvements...


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jake blackstone
Re: Feature Suggestion: a 4th picture for scene cut detection
on Oct 14, 2014 at 7:32:53 am

You don't even need to do that. You can just delete the event, that includes the offending cut and then just extend the previous cut for the full duration of the new uncut event. It's just still annoying and it is still a workaround for a bug.


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Sascha Haber
Re: Feature Suggestion: a 4th picture for scene cut detection
on Oct 14, 2014 at 10:58:26 am
Last Edited By Sascha Haber on Oct 14, 2014 at 11:00:12 am

I also want to have the scene detection per clip or timeline, embedded in the edit page and not as separate windows only.
When you look at Scratch it does it right just there.
You just click a segment on the timeline and say "detect cuts"
It runs trough it giving you exactly two parameters .
Sensitivity and minimum Length.
AND, there is an undo if its to messed up AND it stored the detection info in case you want to do it again in memory.
So thats what I need.
The other window can stay, its useful to load in EDLs that are made on AVID and then just use the record timecode to splice up the long video mixdowns.
But a smaller version that lives in the edit page is vital.

And yes, I agree, its time to sit down and start making the features better, faster , less cumbersome and annoying.
We really do not need more at this time, but I have a huuuuge list in my head that starts with the Media Pool and ends with the Delivery Page.
A big portion of these have been mentioned by others or myself through the years but are lost in the "will my old PC work with Resolve" noise.

A slice of color...

Resolve 11.1 - Smoke 2015SP2
Colorist / VFX / Aerial footage nerd
http://vimeo.com/saschahaber


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jake blackstone
Re: Feature Suggestion: a 4th picture for scene cut detection
on Oct 15, 2014 at 3:42:53 am

Obviously I agree with pretty much all, but I think it's time to begin to pare down certain windows, like scene detection and key framing. When one conforms in NLE, there is no separate window for that. Why Resolve needs it? Isn't Resolve is marketed as an NLE?
The same goes for key framing. That window is down and to the right of the timeline. It's sizing has no correlation to the actual timeline and makes no sense. For example in Nucoda the keyframing is done right underneath the actual event in the main timeline and resizing event causes resizing of the keyframes as well. It's just so much more natural and simpler and it doesn't waste all that space.


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Kelly Reese
Re: Feature Suggestion: a 4th picture for scene cut detection
on Oct 15, 2014 at 1:53:59 am

If you instead create an EDL with the Scene Detector and preconform, then splitting and joining will work fine. That also gives you additional backup. I sometimes even save the Scenecut session.


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jake blackstone
Re: Feature Suggestion: a 4th picture for scene cut detection
on Oct 15, 2014 at 3:44:21 am

That's what I already described as a workaround four posts ago:)


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Sascha Haber
Re: Feature Suggestion: a 4th picture for scene cut detection
on Oct 15, 2014 at 10:55:11 am

I think we are all aware of the workarounds and there are plenty.
But as Jack states, Nucoda really shines in modern interface usability here...
Heck, even Logic or Reaper have better Key-framing options.
Personally, I do not need more functions at this time, but lets streamline things.
Resolve would only get better if some of the functions would be accessible faster and more accurately.
And in terms of using motion tracking for scene detection, if you go down that path you could do so much more.
Like tracking pan/scan info on an offline and recreating that for the online, even speed info could be derived from that.

But for know, just a slider with "minimum scene length' for Resolve 11.2 and this tool gains 500% functionality :)

A slice of color...

Resolve 10.1.4 - Smoke 2015
Colorist / VFX / Aerial footage nerd
http://vimeo.com/saschahaber


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Charles Haine
Re: Feature Suggestion: a 4th picture for scene cut detection
on Oct 15, 2014 at 1:10:19 pm

While it's on my mind, I would also love if I could say the "shots that didn't link" list as a spreadsheet or .txt file. Right now you've got to screencap it, which isn't as efficient as being able to open it up in a spreadsheet or hand off a file to the assistant editor to work on.

http://www.dirtyrobber.com


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Kelly Reese
Re: Feature Suggestion: a 4th picture for scene cut detection
on Oct 15, 2014 at 2:47:41 pm

Could you use the "export missing clips EDL" function from the timeline (right click)?


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Charles Haine
Re: Feature Suggestion: a 4th picture for scene cut detection
on Oct 16, 2014 at 12:10:15 am

"export missing shot EDL" never works fo rme: I browse to the folder where I went to put the EDL and nothing is ever there.

Oh, and one more thing: I would love if the little red box above a clip that indicates that there are multiple instance of that shot in the timeline would have a fraction indicating which instance it is: like, 1/5, telling you it's the first of 5 times the shot appears, or something.

Would be SUPER useful when 3 shots are next to each other in a group but one is far off in the timeline and you might forget that it's getting tweaked by changes as well.

http://www.dirtyrobber.com


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