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Programming one key to key out the other?

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Skyko Tavis
Programming one key to key out the other?
on Feb 22, 2014 at 11:26:54 am

Hello, I trust you are having a wonderfully creative night/day!

I have an actor who's shirt I need to color bright blue - standing in front of a window that is streaming in bright blue daylight.

http://stradfilms.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Blue_Shirt_Blue_Window.png

There is no way to qualify the shirt without getting the window in the sample.

He is moving a lot throughout the long, shot sequence, so drawing a mask around him and animating it would take a week.

Is there a way to key out the blue window in a node:
Qualify the shirt (and blue window) in another node:
-then use the key (or layer?) mixer to output the blue shirt and window minus the keyed out blue window?

I've spent about 6 hours with the manual and trying different parallel nodes, layers, key inversions etc. to no avail.

I would be SO grateful for a little help on this!

:)


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Clark Bierbaum
Re: Programming one key to key out the other?
on Feb 22, 2014 at 4:02:21 pm

Sometimes you just have to rotoscope. Mocha Pro or AE. Or a reshoot. Don't think you could get Resolve to do a good enough job.

Why is production / costume design left til post now?

Good luck, that's one where it may be best to wave the white flag.

Clark Bierbaum
Color Grading / Post Consultant
GarnetColor.com
Charlotte, NC


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Skyko Tavis
Re: Programming one key to key out the other?
on Feb 22, 2014 at 8:58:08 pm

Thank you Clark,

The actor did have a blue shirt on, but the cameraman had the color temperature in the camera unbalanced. This is a fix not color change.

So there is no other way of doing this? Hmm . . nuts. I guess I'll just have to minimally bring up the blue shirt and live with the blue window.

With all the routing possibilities available in the node window I was sure there was a combo where I could key out the window, and then feed that key into another node which to qualify (minus the window).

Oh well!

If any one else has any suggestions I'm all ears.

Thanks!


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Clark Bierbaum
Re: Programming one key to key out the other?
on Feb 22, 2014 at 10:57:59 pm

If it's pushing it just a little you may be able to qualify by using a parallel node out of the balanced image, maybe using a higher chroma setting to help with the separation. Once you get the parts qualified and looking like the client wants, then reduce the chroma to the point they want in a serial node.

Worth a try, thought maybe client wanted the shirt to be orange, don't laugh, I've had it happen!

Might try some NR in the qualified sections to help blend it.

Clark Bierbaum
Color Grading / Post Consultant
GarnetColor.com
Charlotte, NC


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Skyko Tavis
Re: Programming one key to key out the other?
on Feb 23, 2014 at 12:04:13 am

Awesome suggestions from both Juan and Clark,

I've been so preoccupied making the shirt pop in other scenes that I didn't think to push the primary node a little harder in this clip.

SO great to have the ability to confer with seasoned pros for advice here . . .

Thanks to you both!

Peace!


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Robert Ruffo
Re: Programming one key to key out the other?
on Feb 24, 2014 at 12:09:20 am

Have you looked into the Key Mixer Node?

That's what it's for. You can add and substract.


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jake blackstone
Re: Programming one key to key out the other?
on Feb 25, 2014 at 2:04:17 am

Looking at your picture, it's clear, that you already key'd and modified his skin. I say that, because he's very yellow and even more so, I can see a lot of blue noise at the top of the picture, where your key needs clean up. This is the case of using basics before trying to overcomplicate things. Your basic grade is incorrect. And because of that, you're creating other problems down the road. You need to step back and start all over. Right now you're heading in wrong direction…


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Joseph Owens
Re: Programming one key to key out the other?
on Feb 26, 2014 at 9:41:55 pm

[jake blackstone] ". Your basic grade is incorrect. "

Kind of a brutal assessment, but knocking out a lot of the day spill with a primary correction would likely go a long way to creating more of a separation between the two blue tones.

If you do eventually wind up having to roto, I'd suggest taking advantage of the new R10 ability to pile up multiple windows on the same node. A shape for torso, couple of shapes for arms, head... you are essentially making a marionette and pulling the strings by tracking them into motion.
How its done in Mocha.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Clark Bierbaum
Re: Programming one key to key out the other?
on Feb 26, 2014 at 10:02:49 pm

I always balance (primaries and maybe some curves) as precisely as possible toward the look I am going for and then start any secondaries. Old habits from the telecine days, to keep the signal as noise free as possible, and we only had two nodes (telecine colorgrade and DaVinci colorgrade.) Still think it's the best way. Occam's razor applied to color grading!

Clark Bierbaum
Color Grading / Post Consultant
GarnetColor.com
Charlotte, NC


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Skyko Tavis
Re: Programming one key to key out the other?
on Feb 27, 2014 at 12:48:38 am

Hi Joseph,

Thank you for your input and great ideas. The white balance of the scene was so far off that there was barely any "blue" in his shirt at all. The entire frame has a warm, golden wash. When I did a primary color balance, that brought back some of the blues of the shirt (along with the window).

The picture that I posted is not my idea of a finished grade - I just wanted to exaggerate the problem I was having so that you experts could help me find a way to correct it.

Not sure exactly how to separate more of the day spill.

Thanks for all of your positive words!

:)

Peace-


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