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Baselight vs Resolve.

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Rick Turners
Baselight vs Resolve.
on Dec 3, 2013 at 9:53:23 pm

Panels aside, is there anything creative tool wise that one does and the other doesn't?
From what I've heard baselight makes sky replacements/basic compositing easier, which I see more and more clients wanting.

Curious of your thoughts.


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Joseph Owens
Re: Baselight vs Resolve.
on Dec 3, 2013 at 10:22:53 pm
Last Edited By Joseph Owens on Dec 3, 2013 at 10:25:14 pm

[Rick Turners] "Curious of your thoughts."

Don't know whether you are a facility owner (financially involved) or not, (I wouldn't post this on the Blackmagic site)
http://www.filmlight.ltd.uk/store/
might answer some questions about how desirable the software is from an investor point of view... just in case all you want it for is sky replacement. There is a 14-day free trial, if you're really curious.

Otherwise, there is a comparably-priced (to Resolve) Baselight plugin for the major NLE's that calls a window into being, so you can operate on your commodity platform. In which case, I would expect to be executing the composite within the NLE, depending on whether you are building it with a plate or just making the existing sky bluer. Full license, you are building a dedicated hardware system. The Blackboard makes it go, just like the DaVinci panels make Resolve go.

Conceding the point that more demands are being made in the direction of cross-purposing image-processing applications, be careful what you wish for.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Dan Moran
Re: Baselight vs Resolve.
on Dec 3, 2013 at 10:34:45 pm
Last Edited By Dan Moran on Dec 3, 2013 at 10:36:47 pm

I used to be a flame artist so give me a Resolve and the Sapphire plugins and I can do pretty advanced online and compositing work in Resolve. Give someone that has no compositing background a baselight and they'll have hopeless results compositing.

I guess my point is both systems are very close these days so your question should be "who do I hire?"

Sorry if this is shameless self promotion but if you watch a preview video for mixing light you'll see the level of work you can do in Resolve now.







I built that entire trailer in Resolve with some graphics elements rendered out of AE and did all the comping in Resolve. It may be cheesy as hell but I think it shows whats possible!

--

Dan Moran
Colourist
Smoke & Mirrors: London
http://www.danmorancolor.com/blog


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Rick Turners
Re: Baselight vs Resolve.
on Dec 4, 2013 at 12:17:52 am

Trust me I know it's all about the artist but if resolve can do everything baselight can then what is filmlights justification for the higher price point? I don't see anything on the filmlight website that has any distinction other then price.


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Gustavo Bermudas
Re: Baselight vs Resolve.
on Dec 4, 2013 at 5:06:34 am
Last Edited By Gustavo Bermudas on Dec 4, 2013 at 5:07:30 am

[Rick Turners] "Trust me I know it's all about the artist but if resolve can do everything baselight can then what is filmlights justification for the higher price point? I don't see anything on the filmlight website that has any distinction other then price."

That's one of the biggest misconceptions we're having these days when it comes to Resolve. I don't know how much a Baselight is today, but before Blackmagic acquired DaVinci, Resolve used to cost around $250K, which it was probably head to head to a Baselight in those days, and this is not so long ago. Now it's 250 times cheaper and 250 times better, yet the market perception it's getting because of its price (or non price) is that it's aimed at prosumers.


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Juan Salvo
Re: Baselight vs Resolve.
on Dec 4, 2013 at 5:13:33 am

One of the biggest difference is the way people like to work. The layer metaphor vs the node metaphor. The way the timelines work. How shapes are built. How curves are controlled. It's not so much that one is better than the other, as much as it is a preference in style.

I think ultimately you can get the same quality results with either application. It's just that you'd go about it in a different way.

In the margins, some tools are better on one and some on the other. There's a discrepancy in how you're comparing the platforms though. Baselights systems are turnkey. But they're built on serious hardware. The cost of a fully configured resolve system is not insignificant. Though the baselight config still caries a premium. In the kind of room that is choosing between a bl or a resolve config that difference is probably a small percentage of the total cost of the room.

There's also the question of marketability. Baselight due to it's higher cost is seen as a premium solution, and that makes it a convenient way to differentiate yourself. Pay more, look like you paid more, which some will take to be more serious. If the value of the potential client + the value of your preferred methadolgy of working is >= the cost differential of a similarly equipped piece of gear... then you make your choice accordingly.

There's also the question of focus. BL is focused very much on the highend DI, they really do focus resources on development that that market needs. To the exclusion of certain features... you don't see a lot of baselight users angrily asking for handholding features like "auto color". ;) That's what the premium buys you. Not some fancy color manipulation tool. Differentiation, marketability, focused toolset. That said, I think Resolve does a fantastic job of serving the broader market, while also being a great tool for that same high end DI market. I know plenty of fellow colorist who have no problem going from baselight to resolve to filmmaster to lustre and back. All great tools, all have similar capabilities, all have their own quirks.

I've used both, I like both a lot. I get similar outcomes on both.

http://JuanSalvo.com
http://theColourSpace.com


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Rick Turners
Re: Baselight vs Resolve.
on Dec 4, 2013 at 5:35:59 am

Thanks. That's pretty much the way I've thought of it. Now if bl and resolve cost the same what would people choose with the elitist element removed :)

Also, can it render to prores? I know BL can read PR. Not sure if it can write.


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Juan Salvo
Re: Baselight vs Resolve.
on Dec 4, 2013 at 7:28:46 pm

[Rick Turners] "can it render to prores? I know BL can read PR. Not sure if it can write."

Baselight can actually read and write prores in two different methods.

1) They use a mac running an application that links to the full baselight system. Which allows native apple flavor prores ingest and export.

2) more conveniently BL hooks into ffmpeg, which has reverse engineered prores codec.

http://JuanSalvo.com
http://theColourSpace.com


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Mike Most
Re: Baselight vs Resolve.
on Dec 4, 2013 at 10:32:24 pm

I think you're asking the wrong question. Filmlight doesn't have to justify its price point because it not an unfair price point. The price point of Resolve is artificially and ridiculously low because Blackmagic is primarily a hardware company and limits Resolve to using exclusively Blackmagic hardware for video output. So for most copies of Resolve that it either gives away or sells for $1000, it sells at least one video card, and hopefully a few miniconverters as well.

When one product is essentially given away for other business considerations, it doesn't mean that other competing products that are being sold for more reasonable price points (reasonable in this case meaning higher) are overpriced. It means that the one product is severely underpriced.


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Marc Wielage
Re: Baselight vs Resolve.
on Dec 4, 2013 at 7:44:26 am

I suspect if you were to price a fully-equipped Baselight 8 with panels vs. a full-tilt Resolve Linux system & panels with similar storage, the prices would probably be at least $50K apart, with Resolve being a lot cheaper. To me, the advantage of going with Resolve is that you can buy a couple additional stations and have assistants working in separate rooms simultaneously with the colorist, doing conforms and renders while leaving the lead colorist free to work with the client.

I think in terms of sky replacement, trying to do it in a color-correction room isn't optimal. I think you're better off having one room for color and one room for VFX, and let a VFX artist tackle something as sophisticated as AE work and Maya and all that stuff. The compositing tools in Baselight and Resolve are nowhere near as good... but I think the color-correction tools in both are excellent. I like the DaVinci control surface very much, but the (much higher-priced) Blackboard 2 from Baselight is pretty awe-inspiring.

I personally relate to the node structure in Resolve better, but I worked with several Baselights for some time and got used to those, too. I think you can be fast and productive on both. I also think the service from Baselight is top-notch. There's a ton of people who I think bought low-end Resolve systems and kind of got overwhelmed with how difficult it can be to learn and maintain, and from that perspective, I think Resolve could have better support in North America. I'd like to see Blackmagic follow Adobe and Avid's lead in providing paid support -- maybe by subscription or by incident -- so there's always somebody there on the phone, 12 hours a day. If it cost $50 to get an answer, this could help a lot in solving problems in time-sensitive situations.


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Joseph Owens
Re: Baselight vs Resolve.
on Dec 4, 2013 at 5:10:36 pm

[Marc Wielage] "I'd like to see Blackmagic follow Adobe and Avid's lead in providing paid support -- maybe by subscription or by incident -- so there's always somebody there on the phone, 12 hours a day. "

Oh, why do that when there is the COW? [insert cow/cream aphorism here.]

I agree it would be a better beta-feedback path with direct contact involving problems that users are encountering on a day-to-day basis, but we also have to consider that the software development team, possibly the ones who would be fielding the trouble-line, are not necessarily colorists, but code engineers. So, yes, we have to acknowledge the "star chamber" of advisers that are helping to stickhandle the features, but as Juan so aptly put it, not many of them require the training wheels anymore, and are looking for productivity over intuition or automation.

What sorts of issues are repeatedly looked after, especially in the public forums? Overwhelmingly they are round trip handoffs involving codec, frame rate, resolution, interlace, almost drowning out the amount of actual corrector features, including "how do I create this look?" and "if this is so great, why do I have to do anything?" or "why didn't all my NLE-centric filters and effects come back the way I expected them to?"

Still need the crash dump, XML, AAF, machine configurations, operating system, [more degrees of freedom than an anthill...]

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Adam Claude Jones
Re: Baselight vs Resolve.
on Dec 6, 2013 at 7:10:34 am

[Joseph Owens] "Oh, why do that when there is the COW? [insert cow/cream aphorism here.]"

The COW is great and all. But I feel sometimes there's a bit of elitism in some boards towards beginners questions.

A paid service would be nondiscriminatory.


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Mike Most
Re: Baselight vs Resolve.
on Dec 7, 2013 at 5:03:13 pm

>I agree it would be a better beta-feedback path with direct contact involving problems that users are >encountering on a day-to-day basis,

Without breaking any NDA's, I would point out that Creative Cow is not the only way that the Resolve developers get feedback. Public beta programs are only the last step after rather lengthy private beta programs that involve very direct feedback from the beta testers to the developers. This is true of essentially every software publisher's products. Resolve is no different.


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