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Tangent ELEMENT users, unite!

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Francois Driessen
Tangent ELEMENT users, unite!
on Nov 4, 2013 at 7:34:17 pm

Hi there, Guys

Don't know how many of you guys out there are using the Tangent ELEMENT as a control surface for Resolve. I've been running mine for about 8 months now and I love it. However:

Even though there was some significant updates to the control mapping for R10b - there is still a bunch of buttons and controls that are essentially sitting idle while I work. Especially the B button for control wheels that could very nicely jump between Normal & Log mode… (Oh, how I wish..). And the unmapped trackball on the right that is begging to be spun…

I've contacted Tangent with a list of potential mapping improvements and they loved it. However, they have no control over what is mapped to where - It's totally in BMDs hands. I've tried Black Magic about this too. But I was brushed off saying "feel free to submit your mapping request to us. But don't count on it being updated".

I've made a list of potential mapping improvements. But it won't go anywhere if it is just one guy asking for it. I'd love to get connected to other Resolve/ELEMENT users to get your thoughts on what would make the ELEMENT sing better with Resolve for you, and to have more than one voice on it to BMD. Who knows. We might actually get our cake and eat it too!

Spread the word around to other ELEMENT users you might be aware of? Reply to this post and let's take it from there...

Francois

FireTrigger Inc.
http://firetrigger.com


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Harris Charalambous
Re: Tangent ELEMENT users, unite!
on Nov 4, 2013 at 9:31:38 pm

Francois, I'm an Tangent Element User as well and completely agree that the mapping needs updating asap. In its current status it is severely handicapped and far from efficient!. There are multiple threads on the topic, not to mention users expressing their disappointment on twitter, BMD Forum, or in blog posts around the web.

Unfortunately BMD is silent on this topic so there is no way of knowing if they will update it, either by offering custom mapping (for free or a fee), better factory mapping (for free or for a fee) or a more affordable panel (this they have confirmed they would not be doing). Or maybe we'll just have to somehow come up with $30K to buy their panels so we can be more productive. As I've said before I would be more than happy to pay for any of the tangent element mapping options.

I also put together a suggestion for better mapping which can also be found in the Creative Cow thread listed below.

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/277/27209

http://www.liftgammagain.com/forum/index.php?threads/resolve-v10b-tangent-e...


Harris


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jake blackstone
Re: Tangent ELEMENT users, unite!
on Nov 5, 2013 at 1:13:16 am

Why do you think only Element users needs to unite? Do you think MC Color or JL Cooper users are ecstatic about the present panel mapping? It's ALL users, that are in desperate need of custom mapping. And I'm not talking about the new factory mapping. Every user have different needs- some are high end colorists, some are DITs in need of easy dailies grading and some are doing feature and episodic work. They all require different operational focus. So, personally, I will never be happy to be at the mercy of BMD to map something out. I want my OWN custom mappings.


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Ronen Pestes
Re: Tangent ELEMENT users, unite!
on Nov 5, 2013 at 7:46:18 pm

It would be nice to put a new updated PDF for MC Color mapping of version 10.

Seriously, I will pay some extra money to get mapping done right.


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Francois Driessen
Re: Tangent ELEMENT users, unite!
on Nov 5, 2013 at 9:52:33 pm

You bet. Me too.


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Francois Driessen
Re: Tangent ELEMENT users, unite!
on Nov 5, 2013 at 10:00:12 pm

I hear you.
What the guys from Tangent told me is that they did provide an API to BMD for their device. But BMD chooses to use their old API - Which, I guess makes sense since they have a control surface that runs on that… And they would probably not want to have to keep up with multiple "competitor's" APIs.

The only thing that would (maybe) make a difference is if we all commit to writing them emails again and again about the topic. If this comes from multiple users repeatedly, they will hear us eventually. They need to understand that the guys who are using Resolve and does not have the resources to throw into a Resolve panel is an important and significant part of their user base.

Maybe I'm over-optimistic. But it's worth a shot.


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Marcus Smith
Re: Tangent ELEMENT users, unite!
on Nov 5, 2013 at 11:48:24 pm

Hi Francois,

I think most would agree that a custom mapping option for the BM desk and the major third party controllers would be the ideal solution.

The fact that the current BM desk doesn't enable you to fully remap its entire function set suggests that they haven't written an API for the controllers, and that the controller devices are to some extent hard wired / coded. If there doesn't exist a controller API for Resolve then BM can't be fully accused of trying to lock out controller competitors by giving their own desk more functionality. It may just be an under-sight.

However if that's the case - if BM is really trying to recoup lost profit of the Resolve software by selling the desk - then why not introduce a second, more expensive class of the Resolve software that includes the custom remapping option? It's a win-win situation and I'm sure many post production houses would pay and extra 3-10k for such a feature.

On the flip side BM might not care about recouping extra profit from the desk and might just simply be under resourced. Alternatively, the designers may not see the benefit and key mapping. In this case the ball is in our court to do something about it.

A number of threads have been started in the past without much luck, so I doubt if you'll get BM's ear this time given the history of the subject. However, there is another way we might achieve the goal of custom remapping.

It is possible to build a software controller that could enable remapping on the Tangent and other devices without BM's help. It would be a matter of listening to the ports of the BM desk and then making a software controller that emulates it and tricks Resolve into thinking that it's present. After that its a simple matter of remapping the controller keys to third party devices. I've recently looked into this and think it would cost about 10-20k to pay a software engineer to build. So it might be a great pozzible or kick starter project if others are interested.

Even without BM's help, legally we'd most likely need them to sanction it. If they didn't, then at least we would know where they stand in the controller market and pricing of the desk in the Resolve business model.

Marcus.






Marcus.


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jake blackstone
Re: Tangent ELEMENT users, unite!
on Nov 6, 2013 at 2:40:48 am

Does not the fact, that BMD is completely silent on the subject of panels re-mapping answers your question?


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Andy Winter
Re: Tangent ELEMENT users, unite!
on Nov 6, 2013 at 1:31:23 pm

i am a wave and jl-cooper user, and hell yes, i would LOVE custom mapping!

and it is true, bm never responded to all this threads. but why do you think
they aren't? what is this supposed to mean?


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Joseph Owens
Re: Tangent ELEMENT users, unite!
on Nov 7, 2013 at 5:19:57 pm

Years ago, when EDWin was introduced in the 8:8:8 series, we had the option of adding softness to the boundary qualifier -- 4 pixels worth! Uh, not useful, we said. Sorry, said (small-d) daVinci. We'd have to re-engineer large components of the software, and what we have is a situation where we'd have to build a whole new floor in the house... sort of similar to a customer wanting a spa/sauna on the second storey above the kitchen and the ceiling is not load-bearing... that sort of thing. Actually like the example I was told, but I may be paraphrasing.

There is probably merit in the argument that a user-map (as much as I would appreciate it myself) is just not in the cards yet because of the UI overlay that it would require. I know that even with my Elements, occasionally I get beach-ball crashes just turning a knob, so really, even what currently exists is not quite bullet-proof.

The BMD panel is still the way to go, because it is tightly integrated, probably intrinsic, and is something that they can stay on top of. Users are getting really complacent about what a ridiculously complex task is being accomplished with this software. In real time... now with even more added features... and so on.

The price tag for the BMD panel system, for a professional startup, is NOT out of line. It is cheap. But I can see why someone who is interested in the Lite/Free offering wouldn't consider it to be a very good deal. I have a broom closet now full of controllers dating back ten years as various dataports were exploited and discarded as grade software has evolved. Yes, I would like to see more of the moving parts on the Elements put to good use -- it would have suited me better not to have had to spend good money after bad when my -200 series panels were obsoleted.

that's progress. Surf or Die.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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kim krause
Re: Tangent ELEMENT users, unite!
on Nov 8, 2013 at 6:14:15 am

or maybe BMD could come up with a nice set of smaller cheaper panels (similar to elements) that could be user configured...i keep looking at my kensington trackball and wacom tablet and thinking is there not a way to create your own perfect user interface....then i go back to my mouse and just get on with it!


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Ernest Savage
Re: Tangent ELEMENT users, unite!
on Dec 23, 2013 at 5:58:23 am

Just checking here. The fourth track ball on the Tangent Element is not currently mapped to anything? You can't use it for the offset color wheel?


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