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Please Support Element Remapping.

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Mikhail Puzyrev
Please Support Element Remapping.
on Oct 28, 2013 at 9:13:41 pm

Dear BMD Marketing Team! Please, let us remap Tangent Element controls. It's not just useless but looks like sophisticated torture in some way..

What made me to post it now? I have got a session with my old half-dead Wave panel yesterday and found that it takes me two-three times less time to operate Resolve with it than with the new shiny Element. So please! Let us remap...


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jake blackstone
Re: Please Support Element Remapping.
on Oct 28, 2013 at 9:38:43 pm

No!!! You will buy the $30K BM panel and you will like it:-)


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Chad Terpstra
Re: Please Support Element Remapping.
on Oct 28, 2013 at 9:43:46 pm

+1 (enthusiastically)

I miss the control I had in Color with a customized panel. I have the wave currently but was thinking of moving up to the Element.


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Marcus Smith
Re: Please Support Element Remapping.
on Oct 29, 2013 at 4:36:28 am

+1.


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Sascha Haber
Re: Please Support Element Remapping.
on Oct 29, 2013 at 9:46:18 am

I much rather have a solid factory mapping I can learn than a custom mapping that differs from place to place.
But in its actual state, its cumbersome.
What BMD do is offer different schemes people could switch to..
For example, I see myself jumping to the KEY menu all the time, not to work with the key, but to change the GAIN.
Its my favourite function , I need it on the front page, same goes for saturation.
And on the transport panel, next and prev keyframe are as essential as En/Dis All...no one need Unmix or Add Lay.
So a more clever, daily task oriented mapping would be much more useful than the logical grouping it has now.

A slice of color...

Resolve 10b3 , Smoke 2013 EXT
Colorist / VFX / Aerial footage nerd
http://vimeo.com/saschahaber


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Andy Winter
Re: Please Support Element Remapping.
on Oct 29, 2013 at 11:19:49 am

i am faster on the wave than on the elements, which is sad but true.
therefore i invested in a used jlcooper, but there are also some things
missing mappingwise.

i totally agree that theoretically it would be good to have a standard-mapping
and a colorist who knows the board can chime in anytime and begin to work. but
in my reality that is a very rare situation, and missing some basic function,
again mappingwise, i use in my everyday grading-live is a bad trade-off...

so PLEASE blackmagic, make the effort soon, make the different panels customizable,
i guess the majority of us would love it!!!

ps: who is mapping the panels right now? the manufactor? a bmd-colorist? a bmd-technician?
a mix?


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Chad Terpstra
Re: Please Support Element Remapping.
on Oct 29, 2013 at 11:40:50 am

If it's a matter of money I know I would fork up close to the cost of the program again to be able to have full mapping control on any panel. As to whether is personally customized or just a better factory preset, I would think if you're switching workstations you'd just take your preset on a thumb stick and load it up before you start working.


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Harris Charalambous
Re: Please Support Element Remapping.
on Oct 30, 2013 at 7:25:40 am

I remember looking forward to the day I was going to upgrade to the Element panel. Thinking I was going to be more productive, efficient and get more out of this great piece of software. Only to be disappointed by how cumbersome the mapping was compared to the wave panel I had just sold. I hate to say it, but I sometimes I wonder if BMD is only focused on the hobbyist and big shops but don't really think about the guys in between. Which I would think are the guys that with their support may eventually be able to afford the bigger panels and will be the next generation of colorists. Asking people to make the jump from a 3k panel to a 30k panel is a bit of a tall order. V10 sadly has not made the mapping better, actually for a moment it was even worse with the new node menu only, thankfully that was fixed, only put us back to essentially where we were with V9. I was truly hoping for a rethought mapping of the panel in V10, but at this point I'd happily pay a reasonable fee to have custom mapping via Tangent Hub. I'd actually even pay a smaller fee for the something similar to the below factory mapping, call it advanced mapping if you like. Also, if it's too much of a threat to their panels then BMD needs to release a more affordable panel or come up with some other business strategy i.e make panel use only available on the full version or something else.

In the meantime I've taken a pass at the element mapping in hopes of starting a constructive discussion on how the factory mapping could be better and in hopes that BMD will listen.

- MF Panel (Transport panel) switch Menu B to Menu A and keep Menu A as default (So we don’t have to switch to B every time we start a session)
- Add LOG GRADING to B Button on TK Panel - Add High / Low Range to KB Panel which is activated when B button is pressed / Map Offset to 4th Trackball or Center Track ball while A Button is pressed
- Remove Offset Menu altogether and move its functions into Primary Page on KB Panel
- Add Node Sizing to Sizing window

Suggested Menu Layouts

MF PANEL - NEW MENU A
Add Ser. / Add Par. / Add Lay.
Byp Grd / En/Dis Node / Del Node
Grab Still / Play Still / Prev Node
Dynamic / Static / Next Node

MF PANEL - NEW MENU B
First FM / Last FM / Undo
Prev FM / Next FM / Redo
Prev KF / Next KF / Del KF
Dynamic / Static / Toggle Timeline Mode (All, Color, PTZR etc)

BT PANEL - MASTER MENU A
Primary / Window / HSL Q
Curves / H Clip / L Clip
B/S/Mist / Key / Sizing
Version / Memory / Gallery

B/S/Mist = (Blur, Sharpen, Mist) - See KB PANEL - BLUR / SHARPEN / MIST MENU

BT PANEL - MASTER MENU B
Node / Track / Stereo 3D

BT PANEL - PRIMARY MENU
Base Mem / A/C Mode
Base Mem All / Switch Timeline
Base Mem Reset / Auto Color
Toggle (RGB/YUV/HSL)

KB Panel - PRIMARY MENU A
Luma Lift / Luma Gamma / Luma Gain
Saturation / Hue / Luma Mix
Contrast / Pivot / Master Offset

KB Panel - PRIMARY MENU B
R Offset / G Offset / B Offset
Saturation / Hue / Luma Mix
Contrast / Pivot / Master Offset

BT PANEL - POWER WINDOW MENU
CPW / On/Off / Add Win
LPW / Invert / Outside
PPW / Trk Bck / Trk Fwd
PCW / GPW / Track> see BT PANEL TRACK MENU

NOTE: Hitting Track Bck / Track Fwd while tracker is tracking pauses track.

KB PANEL - POWER WINDOW - Move up 3rd column (i.e Rotate, Soft) and unify controls over all windows I.e no staggering of knobs
Size / Aspect / Rotate
Pan / Tilt / Soft

KB Panel - BLUR / SHARPEN / MIST MENU
Radius / H/V Ratio / Scaling
Coring / Level / Mix

BT PANEL - MEMORY MENU
SV Mem 1 / LD Mem 1 / 2Prior (Copy 2 Grades Prior)
SV Mem 2 / LD Mem 2 / 1Pior (Copy 1 Grades Prior)
SV Mem 3 / LD Mem 3
Copy Node / Paste Node

BT PANEL - NODE MENU
Add Ser. / Add Par. / Add Lay
Add Key / Add S/C / Add Outside
Add Bef / Append / Del Node
Bypass / En/Dis All / En/Dis Node

BT PANEL - TRACK MENU
Clip/Frame / Interactive / Window/Stabilizer)
Toggle Pan / Toggle Tilt / Copy Trk
Toggle Zoom / Toggle Rotate / Paste Trk
Add KF / Between / Window >

Curves / YSFX / H Clip L Clip Menu Layout (Move Lower Luma controll so it is in line with other Luma control (Same column)) Many not look as clean but could be more functional?
Red / Green / Blue
Master
Master YSFX
Red / Green / Blue


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Joseph Owens
Re: Please Support Element Remapping.
on Oct 31, 2013 at 3:35:13 pm

Even if the only thing was the use of the fourth ball as a mouse cursor, dot- and ring- left and right clicks. That would be a large stride forward.

What is restrictive about the current Element layout is that we still need to dig down through layers and swap A/B menus to get to most-commonly-used upper hierarchies -- Primary corrections are A-side, while Window controls are B-side... and there are potentially destructive commands just one fumble-finger keystroke away from deep-sixing your project, Undo aside.

After using both my Wave and Elements panels going back and forth between my main and remote studio spaces, frankly the Wave is faster for simple tasks, admittedly not wildly efficient for poly-node, multiple window, qualifications up the ying-yang kind of work, but... unless you are asking for thousands of dollars an hour for that kind of detailed labour... its going to be kind of hard to justify the asset overhead.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Harris Charalambous
Re: Please Support Element Remapping.
on Nov 1, 2013 at 5:59:48 am

Agreed, the addition of the 4th track wheel would be great, but in my mind a bit of a luxury at this point when so many basic functions are still so poorly mapped! As you mentioned there really doesn't seem to have been any thought put into the natural travel of the operators hand when using the dials or knobs per function etc.

Hopefully BMD will surprise us with a more productive mapping update in the near future. I guess we'll have to wait and see.


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Chad Terpstra
Re: Please Support Element Remapping.
on Nov 4, 2013 at 2:48:06 pm

I think the only thought put into it is how to make it just frustrating enough to encourage users towards the BMD panel. Not a very friendly or generous sales tactic but a tactic nonetheless.


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Margus Voll
Re: Please Support Element Remapping.
on Nov 6, 2013 at 5:34:19 am

There is more of them that are not logical in every day use i'd say.

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu
https://vimeo.com/iconstudioseu/videos

DaVinci 9, OSX 10.7.4
MacPro 5.1 2x2,93 24GB
GTX 470 / Quadro 4000
Multibridge 2 Pro


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Lee Niederkofler
Re: Please Support Element Remapping.
on Nov 17, 2013 at 10:07:46 pm

+1



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Greg White
Re: Please Support Element Remapping.
on Oct 17, 2015 at 6:18:19 pm

+1 just got a element and yes i agree , i was faster on the wave, i feel like a the element was not mapped by a working colorist. remapping needs to be a option so we can work more efficient.

2012 MacPro 3.46 12 core | 32 GB RAM | GTX 680 | GTX 980Ti | Resolve 11.3.1 http://www.videocolorcorrection.com


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Marc Wielage
Re: Please Support Element Remapping.
on Oct 18, 2015 at 1:10:50 am
Last Edited By Marc Wielage on Oct 18, 2015 at 1:11:19 am

My opinion (and I have no idea if this is true, just a hunch) is that the mapping is buried pretty deep within the software, and it would take far more effort than you might think to remap it. My suspicion is that if they were to allow complete customization of panel mapping, the commands would get slowed down having to go through sort of an "interpreter," and there'd be a delay every time you hit one button and then got the desired response.

What I think BMD could do in the meantime is simply to map the existing panels better. No doubt, Tangent could assist with this and come up with better placement and menu order than currently exists.

I've used the daVinci panels, the Wave panels, the MC Color panel, and also tons of previous color panels (Topsy, Amigo, Arcas, old daVinci Classic, daVinci 2K, Pogle Platinum, etc.), and I can eventually get used to anything. What's helped me with the MC Color is having the P.I. Engineering XKeys panel, which is just a macro-firing device that can store menu selections and key clicks. Having that has cut my mousing around down by half. I would say it saves me more than 20% in session time, as well as helping to avoid carpal tunnel syndrome. It takes a lot of time to program it, but once you've mastered it it's pretty useful.

Not a solution -- just a workaround, but a useful one. My biggest suggestion for Elements would be to have the most-often used menu/pot commands already at the top. I've found I have to jump 2 or 3 levels deep to get to the things I really need the most, but no doubt, everybody would have different ideas as to what these menus would be.


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Nat Jencks
Re: Please Support Element Remapping.
on Oct 29, 2015 at 3:42:17 am

YES for !@#! sake yes. Please, BMD folks that are monitoring this thread do not discount this as cranky colorists who will never be happy with a single layout. This is a HUGE issue.

Yes this subject has been brought up countless times before, and there's a reason for that.

I would easily pay $10K for ability to remap the elements, or even better, just to have a decent default mapping. Its not just the price of the big panels thats unappealing, but the form factor.

Obviously everyone's definition of "decent" is different, and everyone will always have their own 2 cents to add, BUT no one could possibly use the existing mapping for a job and think its good. Can you get used to it eventually? Of course.

SAT, HUE, CONTRAST, OFFSET, BLUR/SHARPEN should all without doubt be available without going into sub-menus... ideally so should HIGHLIGHT / SHADOW and maybe RGB lift/gamma/gain.

Really the main thing is to design the layout with the intention of absolutely minimizing the amount of shifting between pages and sub-menus. Seems obvious but...

best-
-N


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jake blackstone
Re: Please Support Element Remapping.
on Nov 10, 2015 at 5:42:47 am

If you're willing to pay $10K, then you should look into buying Nucoda. Yes, i know this is Resolve thread, but I'm tired of everyone whining about mapping, but no one is willing to do anything about it. Nucoda is $6700 and you can map anything you want. As far as Resolve goes, I got tired of waiting for MBD and now I'm using two panels at the same time- MC Color and Elements. With those two I too can map Resolve to whatever I want. Look into it...


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