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Premiere to DaVinci - Frame Resize

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Matt Lowe
Premiere to DaVinci - Frame Resize
on Jun 17, 2013 at 7:54:00 pm

Hey All,

So I've edited a short 3 minute piece using the 4K R3D files on Premiere, on a 1080 timeline, and I've done a ton of frame resizing.

I'm trying to find a way to get these frame resizes to translate to Resolve when importing the XML, but it doesn't seem to be working correctly. It basically makes my clips super tiny and positions them all around the frame.

In the project settings, I've tried all of the Input Scaling Presets, including Center crop with no reizing, scale full frame with crop, scale entire image to fit, and none of them have worked.

I feel like even though I told resolve to create a 1920x1080 sequence, it's still creating a 4k sequence, and the shots that I havn't resized are full frame, and the shots that I have resized are super tiny.

Any insight on how I can get these frame resizing to translate would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much!!


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Juan Salvo
Re: Premiere to DaVinci - Frame Resize
on Jun 17, 2013 at 8:52:59 pm

Sizing in PrP works differently than anywhere else. It seems to be absolute, not relative. Others may have better advise for you. But mine would be to ignore all the PrP sizing, and do it yourself in Resolve.

Colorist | Online Editor | Post Super | VFX Artist | BD Author

http://JuanSalvo.com


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andrew smith
Re: Premiere to DaVinci - Frame Resize
on Jun 17, 2013 at 9:53:01 pm

If you have access to fcp7 you can try 'washing' it through that, it worked for me and now I always bring PrP xml thru that procedure.

Just import that xml you created in PrP have a quick look at what data comes thru and then export back out from fcp and into Resolve with the standard settings (before you started trying different sizing etc).

Hope that helps.


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Jef Huey
Re: Premiere to DaVinci - Frame Resize
on Jun 17, 2013 at 10:23:56 pm

Or try exporting an AAF. I have had good luck with that version of "washing" a PrP project for Resolve. Not perfect, but better than nothing.

Jef


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Matt Lowe
Re: Premiere to DaVinci - Frame Resize
on Jun 18, 2013 at 1:17:15 am

Thank you all so much for your replies!

Unfortunately, I can't seem to get any of the resizing data to translate to FCP via XML or into Resolve via AAF.

When I import the sequence into FCP7, the unsized clips have a scale property of 100, and any resized clips have a scale property of 0, but their center point is adjusted.

I feel like this started because I started by right clicking on the clips in PrP and choosing "Scale to fit Frame", which, unlike FCP, doesn't adjust the scale size in the clip properties, so there is nothing to translate over.

In fact, I don't see any property that choosing Scale to fit Frame in PrP changes, except for the fact that it resizes to fit the frame.


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Andy Winter
Re: Premiere to DaVinci - Frame Resize
on Jun 18, 2013 at 2:09:53 pm

as far as i know the reframing via aaf or xml will not translate into resolve.

but if you send it back via aaf or xml from resolve to your editing app, the editing
app will remember those settings for you and reapply them.


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John Tissavary
Re: Premiere to DaVinci - Frame Resize
on Jun 18, 2013 at 2:08:03 pm

Works just fine... if you used 'scale to frame size', NOT motion scaling, to resize the 4k R3D files on your 1080 timeline.

This is a very common mistake with Pr users, I get a lot of Pr XMLs with R3D media that was scaled using transforms instead of 'scale to frame size' which makes transforms useless.

You'll have to re-create your cut with scale to frame size and then re-export an XML, or re-create transforms manually in Resolve.

John Tissavary | colorist | owner
The Post Collective


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Sam Bright
Re: Premiere to DaVinci - Frame Resize
on Aug 27, 2013 at 8:19:47 am

Hey John,

I have completed a whole project in Premiere Pro CS6 with a number of push ins and I believe that the default to scale frame size has been ticked throughout the whole stage of the project for my clip imports RED FOOTAGE (4K). As a result when I'm now trying to give my XML for grading conform in davinci resolve, the grader cannot get the right push ins retained from my sequence. I think he was saying the clips are zoomed too far in.

Any ideas of a way to do rectify my project / XML for the colourist? Without re-sizing every clip, 1 at a time and re building the whole timeline.

Sam


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Ryan Whiting
Re: Premiere to DaVinci - Frame Resize
on Jan 25, 2015 at 6:30:33 am

Hi John ~
I completed editing a project in Premiere CS6 and outputted an XML for Resolve. The footage was 4 & 5K R3D, and my edit was in 1080.

I removed any reposition/ framing CHANGES that happened within a clip before exporting my XML, but left any clips that had such changes at the lowest/ widest scale # they were seen. For example, if I "pushed in" on a shot & keyframed from a scale of 40 to a scale for 48, I left it at 40.

There were, however, some shots in the edit for which I simply selected the "Scale to Frame Size" (1080).

In getting my graded footage back from the Resolve, there are lots of scale and position issues - and information outside the 'widest' view of the frame has been cropped/ no longer exists.

Any advice on how to fix this? Does the XML from Premiere need to be consistently of one world - that is, EVERY clip's scale manually chosen, or every clip is Scaled to Frame Size?

Can the Resolve interpret this scaling and position information at all? Can it be used or ignored for the color grade, but maintained so that it can be outputted back in the XML going back to Premiere?

Any advice/ information is much appreciated!

Ryan W.


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John Tissavary
Re: Premiere to DaVinci - Frame Resize
on Jan 25, 2015 at 5:51:18 pm

If, in a Premiere edit, the source footage is a different size than the edit sequence, one must choose a method of scaling and stick with it. Mixing will cause headaches in Resolve conforms.

Here is why - Resolve has several options for incoming footage:

1) Center crop with no resizing
2) Scale full frame with crop
3) Scale entire image to fit (Default)
4) Stretch frame to all corners.

For Premiere sequences where 'scale to frame size' has been chosen, option 3 'Scale entire image to fit' is the equivalent Resolve method of handling source footage resolution input scaling.

For Premiere sequences where 'scale to frame size' has NOT been chosen, option 1 'Center crop with no resizing' is the correct equivalent Resolve setting.

However, the Resolve operator must choose one of the four scaling options. At that point, all clips in that project will be handles in one of those four image scaling methods. Combinations are not possible like they are in Premiere, where this is chosen on a clip-by-clip basis.

Once you start mixing the two in premiere, you're basically making it impossible to follow along in Resolve without manually adjusting any shots that do not conform to the chosen image input scaling methodology.


Hope that clears things up a bit...

John Tissavary
colorist
The Post Collective NYC


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John Pilgrim
Re: Premiere to DaVinci - Frame Resize
on Jun 18, 2013 at 6:22:41 pm

I'm curious what Premiere is doing.
Having looked at the XML that Premiere produces with the Export FCP XML ("xmeml") as well as the XML inside a Premiere prproj file ("PremiereData")
I suspect they may be applying a XSLT transform to generate the FCP XML from Premiere's own internal XML.
Matt, I'd love to look at the FCP XML that Premiere is exporting for you and see if there was a way to recover the lost transforms.
Let me know.
John


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John Pilgrim
Re: Premiere to DaVinci - Frame Resize
on Jun 18, 2013 at 7:11:17 pm

I just made a test project with two 4K Red clips in a 1920x1080 sequence.
The first clip I scaled with the PPro Motion effect.
The second clip I scaled with Scale to Frame Size.
The FXP XML export had a standard FCP xmeml XML "Basic Motion" effect for the clip with the Motion effect scaling where it belongs at XPATH
/xmeml/project[1]/children[1]/bin[7]/children[1]/sequence[1]/media[1]/video[1]/track[1]/clipitem[2]/filter[1]/effect[1]

The clip with Scale to Frame Size had no "Basic Motion" effect in the FCP XML.

I will continue looking but on first perusal I couldn't find anything in the FCP XML export that would indicate that the Scale to Frame Size clip should be scaled, which would make writing a scripting solution difficult/impossible.

EDIT: The Premiere prproj XML has an "ScaleToFramePolicy" attribute at XPATH
/PremiereData/VideoClip[572]/ScaleToFramePolicy[1]
that is set to 1 for the second clip. Interesting, but not much help for the FCP XML.


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Patrick Taylor
Re: Premiere to DaVinci - Frame Resize
on Dec 17, 2014 at 5:23:04 pm

I've been having, and thus researching this problem of late, and happened on this thread. I have since found a solution.

I'm sure others have figured this out already, but I'll post it here just in case. And if anyone sees any issues with my workaround, please post here.

I have found that setting an Input Zoom value of exactly 2 in Resolve solves the problem.

When comparing to a reference movie, inside Resolve, I have found that doing this preserves all the resizing etc that was done in Premiere perfectly. And, since I am doing an Input Zoom instead of a Node Zoom, from mostly 4k files, there is no loss in quality.

So, it seems that Premiere-generated XMLs that contain sizing info are causing footage to be zoomed out, or shrunk, by a factor of 2 inside Resolve. Not sure why this is happening, but at least it's consistent, and can be dealt with.

-Pat Taylor


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Ryan Whiting
Re: Premiere to DaVinci - Frame Resize
on Jan 25, 2015 at 6:12:07 am

Hi John - did you ever figure this out? I have a 3min project edited in PremierePro CS6 - shot on RED with 5K & 4K files. Because I'm outputting to 1080, I have plenty of room to manipulate the framing, and so I did quite a bit of repositioning/ reframing to the clips, while some of them were left with the 'scale to frame size' box checked.

In getting footage back from the colorist who graded in Resolve, the repos and frame sizes are all off.

What are the scaling/ position rules that need to be followed in Premiere prior to exporting an XML so that these repo's/ reframes translate over correctly? And what are the settings in Resolve that allow the colorist to export graded media and xml that will apply said repos/reframes when imported back into Resolve?

Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated!
Thanks!

Ryan W.


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