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AMA PRORES 444 workflow....WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

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andrew sableton
AMA PRORES 444 workflow....WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
on May 10, 2013 at 4:48:19 pm

Hi all,

I am about to start grading a film shot on ALEXA PRORES 444 (1080P). It was edited in AVID 6.0 natively using AMA.

I am trying to work out the optimal workflow for this. I tried to consolidate to my drive, transcoding to AVID MXF PRORES 444 but DAVINCI seems unable to see this media. If I consolidate to my drive, transcoding to AVID MXF DNXHD 444 and then export the AAF, that seems to work fine.

If I just straight export an AAF from the edit timeline, referencing all the original AMA imported media, nothing seems to come through.

So at the moment my two options as I see it are consolidate / transcode to AVID MXF DNXHD 444 and then go AAF or to export a PRORES 444 quicktime and do scene detection.

There does not seem to be a way to access the original PRORES 444 media linked to an edited timeline from AVID.

Suggestions? Am I missing something?

Thx in advance

AS


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Paul Provost
Re: AMA PRORES 444 workflow....WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
on May 10, 2013 at 5:22:40 pm

try importing media first

http://www.4Kfinish.com | owner-colorist | Hollywood, CA
http://www.facebook.com/4kFinish


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andrew sableton
Re: AMA PRORES 444 workflow....WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
on May 10, 2013 at 5:29:37 pm

Hi Paul,

Do you mean the AMA linked footage or the AVID MXF PRORES 444? I tried adding the MXF PRORES 444 but DAVINCI does not seem to be able to see that media at all....

thx
AS


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Paul Provost
Re: AMA PRORES 444 workflow....WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
on May 10, 2013 at 5:32:01 pm

the original cam footage, then aaf of project.
if you're still not relinking try unchecking "assist using reel numbers" to see what happens.
then try edl from avid after first importing cam media

http://www.4Kfinish.com | owner-colorist | Hollywood, CA
http://www.facebook.com/4kFinish


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andrew sableton
Re: AMA PRORES 444 workflow....WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
on May 10, 2013 at 5:35:50 pm

I see....

So my secondary question to that is, would there be any way to consolidate the footage that I actually need for the project if this works?

There are several terrabytes of footage on the drive although probably only a few hundred gigabytes actually in the final sequence. The production will need their source drive back for other ongoing work on the project and I would rather not have to copy all of that excess media if I don't have to.....

Thanks
AS


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Paul Provost
Re: AMA PRORES 444 workflow....WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
on May 10, 2013 at 5:40:21 pm

save a self contained movie out of avid and use scene cut detection in resolve

http://www.4Kfinish.com | owner-colorist | Hollywood, CA
http://www.facebook.com/4kFinish


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Joseph Owens
Re: AMA PRORES 444 workflow....WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
on May 10, 2013 at 5:38:46 pm

[andrew sableton] " transcoding to AVID MXF PRORES 444 but DAVINCI seems unable to see this media. "

Probably because it would be better to encode ProRes as Quicktime .mov, rather than wrap it in an .mxf format... that would be a good place to start.

DNxHD isn't a bad choice, roughly par with ProRes.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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andrew sableton
Re: AMA PRORES 444 workflow....WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
on May 10, 2013 at 5:47:10 pm

But as far as I can tell there is not an option to consolidate and transcode to .mov proves 444 in AVID unfortunately.... unless there is some way I cannot see?

I am using the CONSOLIDATE / TRANSCODE function available when I control click on my sequence in the BIN in AVID.


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andrew sableton
Re: AMA PRORES 444 workflow....WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
on May 10, 2013 at 6:03:29 pm

Just doing a thought experiment.....

What do you think of this idea......

1. Export AAF from AVID of AMA linked sequence.
2. ADD all media on original edit drive to MEDIA POOL in DAVINCI
3. Import AAF, do not automatically add media to MEDIA POOL
4. Pray that it all links up correctly in DAVINCI
5. Assuming prayer in step 4 has been heard by the DIVA BLACKMAGIC God, then render out the sequence without any grade on it to my separate drive and export an AAF
7. Remove ORIGINAL EDIT drive from my system.
6. IMPORT AAF into AVID, send out another prayer to DIVA BLACKMAGIC, hope I am linked to the renders.
7. Export a new AAF from my new AVID sequence that should be linked to my DAVINCI renders
8. Import new AAF and hope it links up right again....
9. Grade

In other words, use DAVINCI as my consolidate tool.

I don't have the drive with me right now so cannot test this but, presuming I can get the AMA sequence to connect up via AAF, I think this workflow makes sense....

Thoughts?

AS


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Hans Vogel
Re: AMA PRORES 444 workflow....WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
on May 11, 2013 at 9:30:53 am

Best is to consolidate the raw 444 footage. You could use edl spy for this task:

http://edlspy.felixhuesken.de/

Cheers


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Chris Martin
Re: AMA PRORES 444 workflow....WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
on May 11, 2013 at 3:36:41 pm

Instead of using an AAF, use EDL(s). Using EDL manager format as file 32 or file 16 to get full clip name as reel ID. You can first use EDLs to load camera original selects only into media pool to consolidate. If you are referencing external production drives you can then use clip manager to copy the consolidated clips to your local drives. Then use the same EDLs to conform.

EDLs may be limited in what info is under the hood but it is still the most full proof route to go.


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andrew sableton
Re: AMA PRORES 444 workflow....WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
on May 11, 2013 at 8:12:04 pm

Can you describe the process from avid to davinci to avid in a step by step?

Thx
AS


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Paul Provost
Re: AMA PRORES 444 workflow....WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
on May 11, 2013 at 10:17:34 pm

1. Pick up phone
2. Hire workflow consultant
3. Proceed with grade

http://www.4Kfinish.com | owner-colorist | Hollywood, CA
http://www.facebook.com/4kFinish


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Chris Martin
Re: AMA PRORES 444 workflow....WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
on May 11, 2013 at 10:53:49 pm

1. Using Avid EDL Manager, open the Avid Bin containing sequence you are to conform and color. Confirm project's working fps.

2. Generate an EDL food each video layer. For multi layer sequences all you have to do is change V1 to V2, etc. We like to use file 16 or file 32 format for file based workflows such as Red or Alexa as the entire file name is included for reel ID. Using standard CMX 3600 format for example limits you to 8 digit reel ID. Under settings in EDL manager always a good ideas to turn on source file in comments. Nice to see this and Resolve can be set to find reel ID here as well as backup.

3. Use EDLs to import select media only into media pool. As I mentioned you can also then use media page copy media to your local drives with clip manager. If you do this once you have copied selects over I find it easiest to just remove all the clips from media pool if they referencing from extertnal drive and then just add all folders and subfolders back into media pool. Much quicker than changing parent directory.

4. Then conform with same EDLs. Easy cheesy. If you had a lot of repos you were hoping to porter over with an AAF you won't get those but otherwise EDLs still way more stabile than AAF with an Avid AMA workflow. When I've had a lot of repos, especially asnimated, I've done the same workflow above but I have to force conform clips to the AAF in conform. But if you have used the EDL to bring in selects it is pretty easy to sort and may be faster than manually rebuilding each repo.


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Paul Provost
Re: AMA PRORES 444 workflow....WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
on May 12, 2013 at 4:59:55 am

+1 on edl spy

http://www.4Kfinish.com | owner-colorist | Hollywood, CA
http://www.facebook.com/4kFinish


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Neil Sadwelkar
Re: AMA PRORES 444 workflow....WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
on May 14, 2013 at 2:48:13 am

Didn't know you could use EDLSpy to consolidate with handles. I've always used it to 'pull' entire clips.

-----------------------------------
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India


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andrew sableton
Re: AMA PRORES 444 workflow....WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
on May 17, 2013 at 10:34:24 pm

Thanks for the suggestions everyone but in the end I went with my "thought experiment" version, essentially using DAVINCI to do the consolidation to PRORES 444 MOV, while using the AAF protocol for the timeline management.

Guess I should pay myself a workflow consultancy fee...

I got it to work like this:

1. Transcode and consolidate the sequence with handles in AVID to PRORES 444 MXF. (I never use this media but it seems to be a necessary intermediate step to get the AAF to work right in the round trip)

2. Export AAF

3. In DAVINCI ADD THE camera original PRORES 444 files to the media pool.

4. Import the AAF. Do not automatically import media files. Also in conform options do not assist using reel number.

5. The AAF correctly linked to the camera original media.

6. Render out my timeline in DAVINCI as PRORES 444 QUICKTIMES. Need to use "Easy setup" None. Render each clip with unique filename.

7. Export AAF from DAVINCI.

8. Import AAF into DAVINCI. Media was offline. Used AMA linking to relink to new timeline in AVID. This worked perfectly - all relinked to my new consolidated PRORES 444 movies.

9. Export AAF from AVID.

10. Import AAF into DAVINCI. Now I have my sequence in DAVINCI linked to my consolidated clips.


Note - when I compare the consolidated PRO RES 444 QTS with the camera originals in my broadcast monitor and scopes I cannot detect any difference at all. If I went back and forth hundreds of times I don't know if there would be any difference or not. I don't know how a DAVINCI render with no grades on it and using the same codec differs from a straight DATA transfer. Perhaps it does. On the Deliver page I chose "Set to video or data level - unscaled full range data".

Anyway, maybe this will be useful to someone out there - in this case this workflow solved my problems , in particular the fact that AVID would not consolidate AMA PRORES MOVIES without changing them to MXF and DAVINCI cannot read MXF PRORES 444 media.

Phew...


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David Yardley
Re: AMA PRORES 444 workflow....WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
on Jan 18, 2014 at 3:39:12 pm

Thank you for posting your (somewhat complicated!) solution, as we have just discovered the same problem.
It seems surprising that there are virtually no systems that are capable of directly reading Prores MXF wrapped media, or for that matter Avid 444 media.
A quicktime reference of the same media seems to be universally readable.


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