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Anybody else seen this ghosting / ringing issue with Sony F55 ?

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Chris Tomberlin
Anybody else seen this ghosting / ringing issue with Sony F55 ?
on May 6, 2013 at 3:53:43 pm

I'm editing and grading some Sony 4K raw footage shot with the F55. On a couple of shots I'm seeing some ghosting around parts of the image. It seems to be happening in shots that are either underexposed overall, or the darker areas of images that are exposed for the highlights. I'm seeing this in both the 4K raw and the HD shots from the SxS cards (they recorded to both the external recorder and SxS cards at the same time). See attached images - look around the fingers in the book shot and around the woman's face in the other shot. Has anyone else seen this? Any thoughts on what's causing it?

Thanks






Chris Tomberlin
Color/Finishing
Outpost Pictures


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Pepijn Klijs
Re: Anybody else seen this ghosting / ringing issue with Sony F55 ?
on May 6, 2013 at 4:31:54 pm

I have done two jobs now with F55 footage but haven't seen the ghosting like in your footage. But I have only had well exposed to overexposed material. I wonder what it's related to. Might as well be be a problem with a lens maybe? I'll report here if I find anything on my next gig, but that's in two weeks...

Good luck
Pepo

Editor/Colorist, Amsterdam, The Netherlands
http://www.pepijnklijs.nl


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Eric Hansen
Re: Anybody else seen this ghosting / ringing issue with Sony F55 ?
on May 6, 2013 at 4:55:02 pm

definitely get in contact with Sony to make sure you have the current firmware for the camera and recorders. I had a bunch of issues with the F55 2 months ago because the firmware was very out of date.

e

Eric Hansen
Production Workflow Designer / Consultant / Colorist / DIT
http://www.erichansen.tv


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Juan Salvo
Re: Anybody else seen this ghosting / ringing issue with Sony F55 ?
on May 6, 2013 at 4:58:57 pm

The sweet spot on the F55 is definitely slightly over exposed. I'd say a half stop over is where you want to be. In that sense it's very much like film.

Colorist | Online Editor | Post Super | VFX Artist | BD Author

http://JuanSalvo.com


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Kelsey Smith
Re: Anybody else seen this ghosting / ringing issue with Sony F55 ?
on May 6, 2013 at 6:55:23 pm

Oh boy, this brings back memories! I was B-Cam/Steadicam on a feature a couple of years on and we were shooting on the F-35. We had major issues with ghosting with the camera. It was mostly ext high contrast shots. It was so bad they flew in a very expensive engineer to sit in a tent and watch for ghosts! Gives a whole new meaning to the word "Ghost Busters"!:) They never really figured what was causing it. We originally thought it was filter kick, but it still happened without filters. I've never seen this with any other camera, maybe a sensor issue?

Cheers,
Kelsey W.



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Illya Friedman
Re: Anybody else seen this ghosting / ringing issue with Sony F55 ?
on May 7, 2013 at 10:06:17 pm

I'm pretty sure that is what you are seeing is the error listed and corrected with the new firmware here:

http://community.sony.com/t5/F5-F55/New-F5-amp-F55-Firmware-release-Ver-1-0...

It's also been described to me as "edge enhancement" run amok.

Hope this helps,

I.

Illya Friedman
Hot Rod Cameras
http://www.hotrodcameras.com


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Nate Weaver
Re: Anybody else seen this ghosting / ringing issue with Sony F55 ?
on May 8, 2013 at 3:28:01 am

[Illya Friedman] "I'm pretty sure that is what you are seeing is the error listed and corrected with the new firmware here:"

Illya, sorry to disagree.

I had the problem that was in fw 1.01 + 1.02. It looked much, much different than this. It was like a hard, black 1 pixel line on SOME highlights. It ruined my very first day shooting with the cam until I got the fix for my SECOND day of shooting. I was upset the camera shipped like that.



What he's showing in the stills above is the noise reduction. Sony uses a lot on the camera to facilitate 1250 ISO. The NR leaves edge ghosts around fast moving objects in the 5-20IRE range. HIgh key images hide it. Normal speed/slow moving objects hide it

The newest firmware (1.13) has better NR, they say. I'm sure it's because people have been seeing these ghosts.

Nate Weaver
Director/D.P., Los Angeles
http://www.nateweaver.net


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Illya Friedman
Re: Anybody else seen this ghosting / ringing issue with Sony F55 ?
on May 9, 2013 at 9:56:28 am

That's interesting Nate!

I had not seen a sample of that problem, nor realized there was more than one imaging bug with the F55 at the moment.

What was described to me was exactly as I stated "edge enhancement run amok" which created a light/dark outline. This info came directly from someone in an official capacity at Sony.

From our conversation, it sounded to me like it was either corrected in a firmware update, or was about to be. Essentially the firmware just changed a setting of the camera that was related to edge enhancement from default of "ON" to "OFF". I don't recall exactly which setting it was.

I'm yet to play with a F55 outside the DMPC. Nate if you're game, and want to bring your F55 by the shop next week we can try to duplicate the "ghosting" issue and perhaps find a setting fix. I'd also be interested to shoot a little XAVC test if that option has already been enabled.

I.

Illya Friedman
Hot Rod Cameras
http://www.hotrodcameras.com


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Nate Weaver
Re: Anybody else seen this ghosting / ringing issue with Sony F55 ?
on May 21, 2013 at 7:11:34 pm

[Illya Friedman] "What was described to me was exactly as I stated "edge enhancement run amok" which created a light/dark outline. This info came directly from someone in an official capacity at Sony."

It is and it was. It looks speckled in the sample I posted above, but in other shots it looks exactly as described. ~1 pixel non anti-aliased black outline on super hot white highlights. Beyond ugly.

It was fixed in firmware 1.02, they're way beyond it now. My cam came to me in box with 1.01, with no updates farther than that available at that very moment (they posted fw 1.03 the next afternoon), so I had the dubious pleasure of shooting one day with it. Wasn't stoked.

Nate Weaver
Director/D.P., Los Angeles
http://www.nateweaver.net


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