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Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?

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andrew smith
Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?
on Mar 20, 2013 at 4:16:33 pm

I hope I dont get flamed for this BUT

I am running the current full release of Resolve 9.1.1 on my MacPro system and in talking with the helpful and friendly guys at BMD it seems there are some known bugs in this current release - rather than waste time listing them I thought to open up a discussion about having better communication with the users of this software in that I have seen 'known' issues in V8 & V9. Don't get me wrong, I think BMD is doing an excellent job and kudos to everyone who puts in the effort that they do. This is not meant to be anything negative towards BMD.

I just know that a bunch of times with Resolve 8 & 9 I experienced multiple bugs and then pulled my hair out on pressure filled jobs with clients and deadlines only to find out that whatever issue it was, was in fact known to the BMD team. Mind you I always wait a month or so when a new version comes out to see if there are users having problems BUT XMl's not coming in correctly in a variety of ways, issues with mixed frame rate material, GUI interface issues, enable/disable of entire grade with a matte attached just going black, etc, etc. Having to check this forum, LGG AND the BMD forum to see if others have seen and dealt with an issue only to find out that its known to be a bug with the BMD team is frustrating..my suggestion is for a section on the BMD forum where the bugs and issues are listed by BMD as soon as there is a consensus and the bug is confirmed by the team - including a forum element for workarounds and solutions to be given by users and BMD.

For post production professionals with paying clients in the room on an hourly billing system, its pretty frustrating not to have a place to check what known issues/bugs exist in the software. I understand that when you call up here in the USA those are not the guys developing the software nor engineers writing code, and lord knows they are doing there best and are very helpful and patient BUT if there are multiple known bugs we should know about it. Maybe also helpful would be telling us the work-around or fixes until a newer version comes out addressing that bug. As new versions of the software get released they should detail what bugs are fixed and what changes have been made. For me to troll around the internet and write davincihelp an email (maybe to hear back from them, sometimes not), is just troubling from a professional users perspective.

Its an awful feeling to be left in the dark on a technology that your business is based around..to call up and find out that a variety of fcp xml issues exist for example is very disconcerting as its such a basic elementary part of starting projects in the first place! We need to know that 29.97 comes in at 30 or that material is coming in frames off because of ____ whatever reason, just tell us so we can avoid pulling out more hair.

I mean no offense to anyone just trying, to get some better communication going!


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JC Bendock
Re: Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?
on Mar 20, 2013 at 5:52:42 pm

Or at the very least the could send an email to paid customers. I to am dealing with bugs while clients are sitting next to me and it is very embarrassing to have to say in some session 2-3 times an hour, "Hang on a sec I need to restart my machine, after sitting for 10 min hoping it recovers from a freeze so I can save my work .

The biggest bug I encounter is my reference monitor going out. If I hit play or try to change clips after it drops, its all over.

The client just left after sitting with me for an hour this happened 3 times, I could tell he was frustrated. Honestly it is making me look bad and giving davinci a bad name.

JC Bendock
Equipment Rentals|Video Production | Color & Post
O:801-486-3300
RonHillImagery.com


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Pepijn Klijs
Re: Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?
on Mar 20, 2013 at 6:15:25 pm

JC: The biggest bug I encounter is my reference monitor going out. If I hit play or try to change clips after it drops, its all over.

Sounds more like a hardware or driver related problem than a software bug. Im not saying this to defend anything or disagree, more like, to help looking in another direction. I've subscribed to this forum for over one year and I haven't read about this 'bug' that I can remember. Hope you'll find and solve it soon, cause it sounds like nightmare.

Editor/Colorist, Amsterdam, The Netherlands
http://www.pepijnklijs.nl


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andrew sableton
Re: Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?
on Mar 20, 2013 at 7:05:44 pm

I've been using Resolve for about a year, 3-5 days a week grading usually and don't have this problem. Using a Mac Pro and DeckLink HD Extreme 3D card. Mostly 1080i Pro Res or DNxHD material. Was on version 8, now on version 9. The only time I've had this kind of problem is when I have had FCP or AVID open at the same time and sometimes those apps seem to 'grab' the Decklink card, even if I have monitoring turned off in the app.

Could be a lot of issues but I don't think it is a basic bug with Resolve.

S


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andrew sableton
Re: Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?
on Mar 20, 2013 at 7:30:26 pm

Although I must say I am finding the AAF workflow extremely unpredictable.....

Just imported 5 AAFs..... got the message "XXX clips of XXX clips not found" in every case. I tell the dialogue box NOT to search other folders for the media as I plan to "manually" add clips to the media pool to see if that works. However once the AAF files have imported, in fact all of the clips link up correctly to the media without me doing anything at all.

XML seems to work in a pretty straighforward way.... the much lauded AVID media management seems very very flaky in the tapeless, multi format world..... (and no, I'm not using AMA - everything has been converted to DNXHD)

S


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Sascha Haber
Re: Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?
on Mar 20, 2013 at 9:03:47 pm

I think this totally depends what you are doing.
I was grading 11 episodes of a TV series this month, the machine was running for like three weeks, I am running Smoke in the BG to convert stuff and i had not a single crash in Resolve.
Today a guy brought a little USB drive with Red clips on and it crashed twice just during playback.
But I make it a good habit sending crash logs back to BMD and they always respond, even help personally if a project is stuck.

A slice of color...

Resolve 9.1.1 OSX 10.8.2

Colorist / Aerial footage producer
http://vimeo.com/saschahaber


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andrew smith
Re: Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?
on Mar 21, 2013 at 3:17:08 am

I was concerned when I posted this that some hardware, firmware or procedural stuff could be posted by users and incorrectly called "bugs" Let me just clarify I am talking about actual software bugs that BMD is aware of and will tell you so via their support. Some more clarity and a two- way street with your full licensed customers would be a great thing to add- I would even pay for a support contract if it meant not being in the dark as I feel I am now. Hopefully BMD is reading this and listening.


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Paul Provost
Re: Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?
on Mar 21, 2013 at 3:00:43 pm

Please post a new topic on the bmd forum named "known bugs/please respond bmd" with your list of concerns to draw more attention to these issues. It seems they have stopped responding to issues other than "why is NR grayed out on my resolve lite". This may be because we are so near to nab and resolve 10 is coming out etc.
But they are most active on their own forum and we have the best chance of getting notice with a clear post there and all join in.

http://www.4Kfinish.com | owner-colorist | Hollywood, CA
http://www.facebook.com/4kFinish


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andrew smith
Re: Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?
on Mar 21, 2013 at 8:10:53 pm



sorry couldn't resist, i mean they know the known unknowns :)


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Paul Provost
Re: Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?
on Mar 21, 2013 at 11:41:50 pm

like the man says - it's the unknown unknowns that get you.
true dat!

http://www.4Kfinish.com | owner-colorist | Hollywood, CA
http://www.facebook.com/4kFinish


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Marcus Smith
Re: Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?
on Mar 25, 2013 at 6:06:46 am

Hi Andrew,

I think some of the points you bring up are excellent, but a higher level of service by the BMD team, one that would involve checking and advising on your configuration for each release, would require more resources at the BMD end.

With grading and online programs that cost 10 times the amount of Davinci this is often included, or at least given for a yearly fee of a few thousand dollars. Resolve on the other hand costs less than a thousand dollars, and because they don't include or offer a paid support service, can use a more agile form of software development and bring out releases at least three times faster than their competitors.

I think the level of value we as a community are receiving from BMD through Resolve is enormous. Especially if bought version 7 and have been enjoying the free upgrades ever since. The cost you need to factor into your own situation is the development time and experimentation you need to keep your suite running smoothly. This cost is more a personnel time one but is still a fraction of the cost of their competitors paid support contracts, let alone the software cost itself.

That being said there are some of us that could really benefit from a paid support product from BMD. It would be great to see a higher priced option / support add on for Resolve that has a better documentation for known bugs and working configurations. Maybe this add on could let you access some higher mapping functions for controllers and other solutions for things lacking in Resolve that pro users get a little frustrated with at times. I know that some people in the community also get a higher level of support for Resolve from the BMD support team than others. This at least would formalize such a level of support and pay for it the same time.

Cheers,

Marcus.


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Joseph Owens
Re: Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?
on Mar 25, 2013 at 9:22:09 pm

[Marcus Smith] " I know that some people in the community also get a higher level of support for Resolve from the BMD support team than others."

One possible explanation might be that they volunteer their time as Beta testers, etc.
And I do remember the hue and cry that broke out when a "Resolve Lite" forum was suggested for this website that has nothing to do with remuneration or licensing on behalf of the manufacturer.
So the "free" users get the same benefit as the licensed users.... isn't this how "democracy" works?

In business, I've heard that "you don't get what you deserve- you get what you negotiate." N'est-ce pas?

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Marcus Smith
Re: Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?
on Mar 25, 2013 at 10:48:13 pm

Hey Joseph,

I couldn't agree with you more. Although I think Resolve Beta testers receiving a high level of support is symptomatic of an open source community rather than a "democracy" as you put it. Still a fantastic and important part of an agile software development process.

The only problem is if you are a business owner who does not possess the time, staff or technical expertise to participate in such a community. You may have many licenses but how are you to present a smooth and continuing Davinci Resolve experience for you clients as the updates roll out? The majority would avoid updates right up until they absolutely have to, but in a world where codecs are fast turning over and the platform is moving fast it's hard to resist jumping in at the wrong time. In these instances businesses would benefit from a paid subscription where the payee has a higher level of support and service.

There are many software companies like Red Hat's distribution of Linux and Magento's E-Commerce platform that offer both a cheap or free use of their product but also a paid subscription for a higher level of functionality and support. Granted we haven't seen much of it in the Post Production sector yet but I think BMD and their customers could benefit greatly from it in the case of Resolve.

Marcus.


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Juan Salvo
Re: Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?
on Apr 13, 2013 at 5:24:20 am

Marcus,

Conversations at NAB made me realize there is already a way to get this sort of "support" within the resolve ecosystem. And that is to use a VAR to purchase and configure your system. Many var consider supporting installations a critical part of their service. They configure your box and then stand behind it. Others are willing to provide additional support options, some are flat rate other bill per incident or per hour. But almost all VARs go the extra mile to support their box.

Just a thought I had which may help those looking for a more supported solution.

Colorist | Online Editor | Post Super | VFX Artist | BD Author

http://JuanSalvo.com


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Peter Berg
Re: Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?
on Mar 27, 2013 at 1:23:14 am

I agree that the price is Resolve is very low and we get alot for our money.

But why does Blackmagic not charge for updates? That seems like a foolish thing on their part. They could use that money to strengthen their support team and also to improve the software and make it more bullet proof. It still has too many problems to be something I can fully trust and fully rely on. I don't know of any software (other than open source) that gives away all it's updates for free.

I think it would be better for the company and also for it's customers to charge for updates (or maybe not give the software away for free). I don't know anyone who wouldn't expect to pay at least something for the new versions of the software. Just don't know how their choices make the product better for their own reputation and the success of their customers.

-Peter


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andrew sableton
Re: Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?
on Apr 3, 2013 at 7:55:54 pm

It seems to me that Blackmagic is developing an ecosystem. They don't charge much (free for the Lite system) for their software but you have to buy their hardware (a bit like Apple). They now have a camera, scopes etc. The issue might be more about increasing the number of users buying in to their ecosystem rather than what some particular components of that ecosystem cost. Overall revenue per user over a working life in post is probably a lot more important than a little bit of cash from an update now and then....


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andrew smith
Re: Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 4:43:31 pm

anyone else having crashes with 9.1.4 when rendering and/or selecting location to render to?

I rolled back to 9.1.3 and the problem went away.


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Paul Provost
Re: Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 5:29:28 pm

no problems here. been using it regularly for some time.
whenever I've had that problem it's been a wonky piece of media in the timeline (slug, still, crazy naming etc)

http://www.4Kfinish.com | owner-colorist | Hollywood, CA
http://www.facebook.com/4kFinish
Twitter 4kfinish


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andrew smith
Re: Don't shoot the messenger: Bug list on the BMD forum?
on Jun 28, 2013 at 5:35:42 pm

Yeah I thought the same actually or that it was a location on the drive with a funky naming convention (symbols &$* etc) but it seems to be with multiple different projects and drives I am trying to work off of and render to.

BMD suggested to roll back to 9.1.3 and the problem disappears.

Anyways, thanks for the response paul.


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