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5D decompressing workflow for grading

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hamid ghodrati
5D decompressing workflow for grading
on Mar 11, 2013 at 2:02:09 pm

hi

I've 5d footages that i shot with Technicolor cine style, even though with Technicolor picture style i have more detail in highlighits & shadows area but when i want to grade because of 8bit, h.264 codec i cant tweak footages as i want .
so i decided to decompress footages .
I've read ProRes 422 is a good option but because im working on win thats not an option in my resolve, there are lots of other option in "format conversion" dpx cineon tiff ...
which one do you recommend ?

thanks


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Andy Winter
Re: 5D decompressing workflow for grading
on Mar 11, 2013 at 3:02:29 pm

hmm... i am in proresland, but if hdd-space isnt the problem (and speed, although you could easily
render proxy files for realtime performance) take the dpx-route. that way you are 100% safe
(because uncompressed)!
alternatively you could try aviddnxhd 175/220 (the proreshq pendant)! should also do the trick.


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Timo Teravainen
Re: 5D decompressing workflow for grading
on Mar 11, 2013 at 3:24:08 pm

DNxHD is a good alternative for intermediate.

The image itself is recorded as 8-bit H.264, so the damage is done already.. Grading in 10-bit format doesn't bring back the information that is lost in the compression. In my opinion, quality-wise it's just as good to grade with the h.264 files from the camera. They're just a bit more heavy for Resolve than prores for example.

(Someone correct me if I'm wrong..)


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Ryan Holmes
Re: 5D decompressing workflow for grading
on Mar 11, 2013 at 3:46:17 pm

I second Timo's recommendation. DNxHD is a great alternative intermediate format from ProRes, especially if your a Windows user.

But transcoding from h.264 footage to an intermediate (like ProRes, DNxHD, etc.) won't buy you any more quality. The damage was done to the signal when it got compressed to h.264. You can't add quality to the image by transcoding to a different format. The reason people typically transcode from h.264 to a DI format is that h.264 doesn't play well with all software packages. ProRes, DNxHD, etc. work well in a variety of softwares (PPro, FCP, Avid, Smoke, Resolve, etc.).

Summary: It's not bad to transcode from h.264 to something else. Just keep in mind that the primary reason for doing so is easy of workflow, not improved image quality.

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
vimeo.com/ryanholmes


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hamid ghodrati
Re: 5D decompressing workflow for grading
on Mar 11, 2013 at 4:47:45 pm

Thanks u all.
yes ryan there is no turning back for quality after transcoding
" a transcoded file will provide much more “headroom”
in post and allow for a smoother workflow when you're editing"*
is there a way that i can see full info of codec section of format conversion( because apparently there is no way to scale up the window to see full info) ?
and beside bit depth and frame size there are some other number in dn hd codec info "220/185/.." what are those numbers ???




* DSLR Cinema - Crafting the Film Look With Lg Sensor Vid Cams - K. Lancaster (Focal, 2011) BBS - chapter 6


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Ryan Holmes
Re: 5D decompressing workflow for grading
on Mar 11, 2013 at 5:12:30 pm

[hamid ghodrati] "and beside bit depth and frame size there are some other number in dn hd codec info "220/185/.." what are those numbers"

Those are data rates associated with that flavor of DNxHD.

Google is your friend for questions like these:
http://www.avid.com/static/resources/US/documents/DNxHD.pdf

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
vimeo.com/ryanholmes


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hamid ghodrati
Re: 5D decompressing workflow for grading
on Mar 11, 2013 at 5:33:33 pm

you are right .
Thanks


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MichaelMaier
Re: 5D decompressing workflow for grading
on Mar 11, 2013 at 8:32:43 pm

Don't bother with Prores on Windows. No reason really specially that DNxHD is just as good and on Windows I would say it's actually better. The DNxHD flavor you want if this is 24fps is DNxHD 10 bit 175.

Use 5DtoRGB to do your conversions for best results. Avoid recompression at all costs. Once you finished grading in Resolve render out as a DPX sequence and master it to whatever format you need in your NLE.



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hamid ghodrati
Re: 5D decompressing workflow for grading
on Mar 11, 2013 at 10:51:59 pm

thanks Michael.


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Teo Rižnar
Re: 5D decompressing workflow for grading
on Mar 12, 2013 at 8:05:45 am

Only thing that ever did anything to get some more out of 5D H264 was the 5DtoRGB that decompresses the h264 files to prores4444, dpx etc... With that you could get some little more out of 5D clips, all other from my experiences is just changing codec/making davinci run faster no quality change...

Color grade reel:
Cofounder of http://nuframe.si postproduction


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MichaelMaier
Re: 5D decompressing workflow for grading
on Mar 12, 2013 at 11:52:49 am

I pretty much agree, yes.



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hamid ghodrati
Re: 5D decompressing workflow for grading
on Mar 12, 2013 at 1:17:53 pm

Thanks teo
now its time for me to try those and see which one suits to my workflow
another question is which codecs making davinci to run faster ?(if its better to dicuss this in another post just tell me )


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MichaelMaier
Re: 5D decompressing workflow for grading
on Mar 12, 2013 at 2:10:13 pm

DNxHD runs pretty smoothly. As far as codec I think this is the best you can get specially on Windows.



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