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DNG Sequence Blurry at High Resolution

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Paul Golden
DNG Sequence Blurry at High Resolution
on Dec 13, 2012 at 7:20:22 am

I'm trying out a new workflow for stop-motion and time-lapse. I have a 360 frame image sequence of CR2 files that I've converted to a DNG sequence using the Adobe DNG Converter utility. The files are 4500 x 3000. My intention is to bring them in, grade them and output 1080p movies.

Mac Pro 4,1 8 core, 48gb RAM, Nvidia 285 (Graphics) & Radeon 6850 (GUI); OS 10.8.2, Cal Digit Raid

I'm using Resolve Lite 9.0.4 and I'm able to import the sequence just fine. But in my broadcast monitor (HP Dreamcolor via Decklink), the playback shows very low res/blurry.

I know that I can't finish beyond 1080 in Lite, but is the playback limited too? I've taken in the Cinema DNG files from the the tests of BM Cinema Camera and they look sharp and fine.

Any thoughts on what might be causing the images to look like crap? When I bring the image sequence into After Effects, it's sharp as a tack on my monitor.


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Paul Jay
Re: DNG Sequence Blurry at High Resolution
on Dec 13, 2012 at 8:12:32 am

Set your project settings at HD and your bmd playback settings as well.


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Paul Golden
Re: DNG Sequence Blurry at High Resolution
on Dec 14, 2012 at 12:44:47 am

The project is a 1080/24p project and BM prefs are set for 1080 as well...


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Rohit Gupta
Re: DNG Sequence Blurry at High Resolution
on Dec 14, 2012 at 9:13:56 am

Resolve does not support the DNG files (these files contain multi-resolution images in the same file). Only CinemaDNG files are supported by Resolve.

You can convert to DPX or TIFF or any of the other supported file formats.


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Paul Golden
Re: DNG Sequence Blurry at High Resolution
on Dec 14, 2012 at 11:45:51 pm

Hi Rohit

I'm really curious about the difference between DNG and Cinema DNG files. In the Finder, these files appear to be identical and are handled the same in Adobe Camera Raw (as well as Photoshop, After Effects etc.)

The files I'm testing are originally Canon CR2 Raw files from a 5DMk2. I've then converted them using Adobe DNG Converter 7.3 to a DNG sequence. There are various options for lossless/lossy, embedding Jpeg previews and which version of ACR the files are compatible with.

When I bring them in, Resolve can see them and play them back, but in the Metadata Clip Details screen, the files are showing as 256 x 171 pixels (hence the blurriness) at 8bit (not 16).

Can you point me to the technical reason why DNG is not compatible/comparable with Cinema DNG and if there's any method to convert them properly? Is it more involved than header information or is there a more fundamental difference? I've been scanning the web for details...

Thx


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Tim Fraser
Re: DNG Sequence Blurry at High Resolution
on Mar 22, 2013 at 7:52:14 pm

I'm having the same problem when I use a sequence of DNG files, resolve only brings in low 256x171 frames when the dng resolution is 3872 x 2592 pixels.

Help please!

Tim


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Paul Golden
Re: DNG Sequence Blurry at High Resolution
on Mar 22, 2013 at 8:28:52 pm

Are you using a DSLR raw sequence converted to DNG sequence using Adobe DNG Converter, like I am?


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Tim Fraser
Re: DNG Sequence Blurry at High Resolution
on Mar 22, 2013 at 8:36:51 pm

Hello Paul,
Following is copied from a post I just made on EOSHD:
----------------------------------------------
I just took delivery of a Nikon V1 which does 30 frames of 4K raw storing each as Nikon NEF files using it's electronic shutter.

I used Adobe DNG Converter to convert all 30 frames into a sequence of 30 DNG files.

CinemaDNG can exist as a sequentially numbered sequence of DNG files in a directory. To prove this I downloaded the Autumn1 files from http://www.ikonoskop.com/workflow/
and it load into Resolve 9 lite without problem and shows the correct resolution of 2048x1092-16b and of course looks great. I notice that Each AND EVERY DNG file is 3,288KB.

Interestingly when I look at the file size of my Nikon NEF files they are all slightly different sizes but all close to 10,300KB. After converting using Adobe DNG Converter, Each file is again slightly different size but all are about 11,700KB. Maybe I have answered my own question, but how to convert my NEF files to a consistent DNG sequence?

Here is an example of a V1 Sequence, using RAW files, but using tools other than Resolve ;-(
http://vimeo.com/61774105#

I can't wait to overcome whatever problem I have to get the Nikon output into Resolve!!

Tim


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Paul Golden
Re: DNG Sequence Blurry at High Resolution
on Mar 22, 2013 at 8:45:54 pm

I don't think it matters if the file sizes are slightly different, because even if the frames are RAW, there maybe compression algorithms at play that alter that. You can also create compressed RAW files using the DNG Converter.

My guess is that Photo DNG and Cinema DNG are very similar but that Cinema DNG has different metadata controlling preview etc. Either that, or Davinci Resolve does not know how to interpret Photo DNG sequences.

Are there any other applications that use Cinema DNG for grading or playback? For example, Speedgrade? I saw a link that claims to: http://blogs.adobe.com/VideoRoad/2012/10/on-cs6-and-cinemadng.html


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Tim Fraser
Re: DNG Sequence Blurry at High Resolution
on Mar 23, 2013 at 4:15:08 pm

Got this helpful reply from Blackmagic support on their forum:

Re: 4K raw showing in media browser, imported - 256x171-8b o
Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:38 pm

Resolve only supports CinemaDNG files.

Standard DNG files have multiresolution support, and if you put one of those in Resolve, it will usually see and report the lowest resolution. Resolve does not support those.
Dwaine Maggart
Blackmagic Design DaVinci Support


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Tim Fraser
Re: DNG Sequence Blurry at High Resolution
on Mar 23, 2013 at 4:17:19 pm

I have since batch converted the NEF sequence to TIFF and Resolve imports that at full resolution which is better than no import at all, but all the same I'm disappointed not to be able to have graded 4k RAW files for such a small outlay even though the subject might usually be my grand daughter!


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Tim Fraser
Re: DNG Sequence Blurry at High Resolution
on Mar 31, 2013 at 6:06:56 pm

It appears that after converting my NEF files from my V1, Adobe DNG converter inserts a thumbnail into the DNG file. The thumbnail has been verified as 256x171 by a colorist in California, hence why the footage resolve shows is this measly res.

Although Davinci Resolve has been said by their support people not to support a directory of seqential DNG files, Resolve does actually play the clip, perform grading, even outputs the results "deliver", however they are unfortunately correct in saying to me on blackmagic forum that Resolve defaults to the lowest resolution image in each DNG file when dealing with sequential DNG images.

My conclusion, is that if we find a way to convert from NEF to DNG file without having the thumbnail embedded, or find a utility to remove the thumbnail after conversion, then we could have our cake and eat it!

Tim


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Tim Fraser
Re: DNG Sequence Blurry at High Resolution
on Mar 31, 2013 at 7:10:11 pm

see previous post also!

I wondered about the structure of DNG files and if I could potentially alter the embedded recorded res size of the thumbnail (to say 4500 x 4500) it might trick Resolve into seeing the thumbnail res as larger than the V1 raw res of 3872 x 2592, then the raw res would be the smallest, so Resolve might use that raw image instead.

I could use a hex editor directly on the binary DNG file, but would need to find out which part of the file the thumbnail res info might reside, and if the thumbnail res info exists in addition to the actual pixel data of the thumbnail.

I have located a hex editor that records macros and performs batch operations so in theory would do a whole directory of images in one go Hoping to make progress but would appreciate any help in making sense of DNG file binary strucure!!


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Daniel Lama
Re: DNG Sequence Blurry at High Resolution
on Sep 21, 2013 at 12:32:35 am

I did it!!!
converted to dng in lightroom, but before i did it i went to preferences and disabled the creation of jpg thumbnails. I imported the sequence into davinci and it recognized as a cinema dng file 4928x3264 px.


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Tim Fraser
Re: DNG Sequence Blurry at High Resolution
on Sep 21, 2013 at 10:41:16 am

Well done! I didn't know Lightroom has that feature.

Now I believe Resolve 10 beta lite (newly available) allows for higher resolution delivery (output) than 1080p, so you may now be able to output higher res for web.

While I believe even Vimeo Pro only allows 1080p, I think youtube allows far more, and while you have to put up with their compression. The resolution will likely shine though.

If you put up any high res footage, please share it with us.

In the intervening time since the last posts, I heard news that Resolve has been updated to handle sequential DNG's and should handle those in the same folder as a movie clip. I never got this to work myself as yet, but now for those without Lightroom or those wishing to use free products, using Adobe free Raw2Dng converter should prepare clips for Resolve. The only workflow I managed was via sequential tiff's into Resolve, using Nikon ViewNX.

If only Nikon V1 allowed 6-7 seconds of raw :-)

Tim


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