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Several questions for finishing a complicated FCP Red+Canon offline/online workflow (xpost from FCP forum)

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Adhish Yajnik
Several questions for finishing a complicated FCP Red+Canon offline/online workflow (xpost from FCP forum)
on Oct 1, 2012 at 10:43:37 pm

I'm color correcting and finishing a project shot on the Red One at 4K and 2K and the Canon 5D at 1080, edited in FCP 7, mastering to 1080/23.976, and have several workflow questions since the show clearly did not have a post supervisor and it's fallen on me to steer the film through the last leg of post.

I would like to do a primary balance pass on the show within redcine-x (at least to the r3d media) to return them to redcolor 2 - redlogfilm state with shadow and highlight detail preserved. I would like to finish in DaVinci Resolve at 1K (I have Resolve Lite, so it can't grade anything above 1080... which should be fine for a show that wants to master to HD, right?), so we'll have to transcode the balanced r3d timeline to a dpx sequence or a ProRes QT before bringing it into DaVinci. (I'm crossposting this to the Red forum as well)

So here are my questions:

1. Is my proposed workflow above appropriate and workable, or are there improvements I could make? I would love to be able to grade the r3d files in DaVinci, but I'm not sure my computer has enough juice to debayer on the fly like that. I don't have a Red Rocket card either. If we transcode the original 4k r3d files to 1080 r3d files, will that make a difference in terms of processing power needed?

2. How do I rebuild my edit with the original r3d media? An FCP XML of the picture locked timeline sent to redcine-x? The editor keyframed pans and zooms with the 4k and 2k footage since we're mastering to HD, and I'm sure some shots have been speed changed. How will these effects affect the workflow?

3. To make matters even more complicated, the 5D proxies are 720 and the Red proxies are 1080 (did I mention this show didn't have a post supervisor?). I'm not sure if this presents a problem with relinking to the r3d files and preserving those keyframed pans and zooms, but it seems like it will. The proxies were created in Final Cut Pro Log and Transfer (as opposed to redcine-x).

4. How does the Canon 5D footage fit into all of this? Obviously we can't bring that through redcine-x for the primary balance pass (or can we?), so what would be the best way to relink that media and transcode to our mastering format (dpx or ProRes 422 (HQ)) before bringing into DaVinci. I'm not averse to splicing in the Canon footage as needed in the DaVinci conform panel, but if there were a faster way to rebuild the edit in DaVinci, I would gladly take that route.

I hope I'm not asking an old question--I searched quite a bit and couldn't find exactly the answers I was searching for. Probably because this project's workflow was not determined before shooting began and we're in a situation that very few people get themselves into normally (at least, I would hope).

Thanks in advance for your help!



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Chris Martin
Re: Several questions for finishing a complicated FCP Red+Canon offline/online workflow (xpost from FCP forum)
on Oct 2, 2012 at 3:52:46 am

Adhish,

You can work off the full res R3D files in Resolve Lite. Your limited to renderring out at 1080 but since that's your deliverable format you're all good. That keeps everything in Resolve and much simpler workflow.

The FCP XML will carry over the animated repos for you. On multi-format prjects like this, we work with editors to spend some extra time prepping a final sequence where they use layers to define the format. Example: V1 for RED, V2 for Canon, etc.

We don't usually finish back in FCP so don't have mush advice on the roundtripping back with an xml. I'd test it out, especially if there are multi frame rates or speed f x.


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John Tissavary
Re: Several questions for finishing a complicated FCP Red+Canon offline/online workflow (xpost from FCP forum)
on Oct 2, 2012 at 4:33:41 pm

You're making this extra complicated, and I'm not sure why.

First, why are you using Redcine if you're finishing in Resolve? Try 1/4 debayer for the grading session, then bump the project to 1/2 prem or full for final render. yes it'll render slow, but so will Redcine X.

Next, if you're dead set on transcodes, you can conform in Resolve and kick out the transcodes there, too.

5D stuff may or may not conform well. I've not usually had problems, but lack of real timecode can be an issue. Also, grading h.264 in Resolve can be a bit clunky. I would do prores 1080p transcodes of all the 5D prior to grading. Put all your conformed 5D clips on a separate layer, turn off the non-5D layers, render that layer in source mode to file format of your choice, then reconform from that folder and you're ready to grade 5D from prores which will go smoother.

It sounds like you don't have much experience with this kind of workflow... I would suggest hiring someone with experience to help you get started as it's very easy to make small mistakes that add up to huge time wasters on projects like this.

JT

John Tissavary | colorist | owner
The Post Collective


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Adhish Yajnik
Re: Several questions for finishing a complicated FCP Red+Canon offline/online workflow (xpost from FCP forum)
on Oct 2, 2012 at 5:13:54 pm

Thanks so much for the advice and info.

I hadn't realized how easy it was to work off the r3d files in davinci, which is why I thought I'd have to transcode regardless and possibly start with a primary pass in redcine-x.

Chris, you mentioned that the repos will carry over... to davinci? And will they carry over from the 720 proxies on which they were applied to the 4k, 2k, and 1080 online media without being affected by the resolution difference?

-- Adhish



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Chris Martin
Re: Several questions for finishing a complicated FCP Red+Canon offline/online workflow (xpost from FCP forum)
on Oct 3, 2012 at 3:31:54 pm

Adhish,

Yes when you import an xml make sure use resizing option is checked when prompted. In the color process you can choose to use or not use the xml resize info by right clicking.

The one issue you may have is if the 720 proxies were used in a 1080 FCP timeline. If the editor was dropping 720 into a 1080 sequence and then scaling up 150% then you'll have to go into PTZR and zoom back out 50% to compensate. If all the repos in FCP reference 720 source in 720 canvas then you will not have to worry about this.

Chris


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Joseph Mastantuono
Re: Several questions for finishing a complicated FCP Red+Canon offline/online workflow (xpost from FCP forum)
on Oct 3, 2012 at 8:29:44 pm

Honestly?

Low budget projects like this are often the hardest to finish. My suggestion is to refer them to a professional post house, have them get a quote... It will be hilarious, trust me. And it'll give you some ideas to what you should be charging.

Joseph Mastantuono
http://www.goodpost.net
Color Grading & Post Production Consulting


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