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Color management

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Margus Voll
Color management
on Jun 29, 2012 at 7:16:09 am

Hi.

Probably should go to config forum and will be a bit OT but i figured more hi end users here.

My client has a problem with calibration of monitor / plasma / projector.
I go there to grade as a service from time to time.

I see 2 options LI or Cinetal. If you have any other ideas then please direct me.

At the moment they do not have any LUT boxes between plasma and projector but probably should have.
And of course both have hdmi in :D

Monitor is Penta rather hi model with 3 gig 444 input.

On LI page i read that for Resolve i should contact with Peter but i bet he is a bit occupied now
before launch.

So any experiences and ideas are welcome.

I'm a bit green with full house calibration setups still.

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu

DaVinci 8.2.1 OSX 10.7.3
MacPro 5.1 2x2,93 24GB
GTX 470 / Quadro 4000
Multibridge 2 Pro


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John Pilgrim
Re: Color management
on Jun 29, 2012 at 4:24:16 pm

Along these same lines, I've been meaning to poll the forum members here:

How are you calibrating your monitors, specifically those connected by SDI?

What software, probes, boxes, schedules are you using?

John


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John Tissavary
Re: Color management
on Jul 1, 2012 at 5:11:31 pm

You're on the right track. There are a whole lot of considerations for color and monitoring management.

Choosing the right probe is important, and getting the displays to match as closely as possible without the use of LUTs is the best 1st step, imho.

I use a Klein K-10 colorimeter with the Klein measuring application for this purpose. I put up a couple of patches that I created for this purpose, then get the hardware to match white-points and luminance as best as possible.

I don't go to LUTs until I'm either unable to get a satisfactory result from the display's hardware controls, or I am conforming a display to a non-native color space (i.e. getting a Plasma to match a DCI projector in P3 color space).

Both Cinespace and Light Illusion will do the latter, but I only have experience with Cinespace, never personally used Light Illusion. Cinespace is flexible in that you can either run the profiling locally on the workstation via its own profiler application, which will display the color patches with correct timing for your given probe (and supports a LOT of probes), or by Output Independent Profiling, where patches are run on the workstation via Resolve or whatever, and a separate computer (laptop with probe attached) is running the Cinespace profiling software taking measurements. This is useful if you have a single license, as Cinespace costs more in a site-wide sever-based licensing scheme.

hope that gets you somewhere...

John T.

John Tissavary | colorist | owner
The Post Collective


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Mike Lary
Re: Color management
on Jul 2, 2012 at 9:12:47 am

I'd also recommend the Klein K-10. It's very fast, consistent, and has good low light capability. It also has the capability of storing custom matrices on the internal flash which can be used to fine tune your measurements per display to give you a level of accuracy generally only achievable with high end spectros.

cineSpace is very intuitive and THX provides great pre-sales support. They also offer a time-limited demo (unlike L.I.).

Mike Lary
Digital Factory
Seoul, South Korea


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Margus Voll
Re: Color management
on Jul 12, 2012 at 5:51:53 am

Have anyone used Calmans SpectraCal?

Its seems to be also viable option as for relatively low level hdmi (prosumer) input with BM HDLink Pro could be used for 3D LUT.

Any experiences?

I will look into Klein also. Thank you for that info.

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu

DaVinci 8.2.1 OSX 10.7.3
MacPro 5.1 2x2,93 24GB
GTX 470 / Quadro 4000
Multibridge 2 Pro


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Blase Theodore
Re: Color management
on Jul 16, 2012 at 4:33:06 pm

Calman is still in Beta for their LUT support, but could be a very promising solution. My calibrator and I will be testing it out with the K-10 this week or next. I will update findings then.


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Margus Voll
Re: Color management
on Jul 24, 2012 at 10:37:04 am

Really nice.

Thank you.

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu

DaVinci 8.2.1 OSX 10.7.3
MacPro 5.1 2x2,93 24GB
GTX 470 / Quadro 4000
Multibridge 2 Pro


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Steve Shaw
Re: Color management
on Jul 28, 2012 at 4:47:11 pm

Just to add to this thread...

Penta have adopted LightSpace for their monitor calibration.
They have a new update that allows LightSpace to directly calibrate the display and provide the final calibration as a LUT for direct use within the Penta monitor.

LightSpace also has Display Independent profiling, as we actually supply EDL to automatically build the timeline in Resolve, or any other systems. This makes indirect calibration very easy.

The is also Java Application as an alternative solution.

Also, Light Illusion does provide time limited 'eval' licenses for LightSpace. You just need to ask.

Feel free to ask any additional questions. Happy to answer as best I can.

Cheers,

Steve


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Margus Voll
Re: Color management
on Aug 1, 2012 at 9:30:58 am

Thank Your for the response Steve.

It is all a bit confusing to me still.

What i have figured so far is that i need software i.e. LS with a probe.

Now this suite has Penta primary monitor, Plasma and Projector.
Plasma and projector have both HDMI in so i probably need get BM HD Link Pro for both of them.

If i have got the workflow correct i have to get some modules for LS for calibration
and i have to make different profiles for DCP (P3), 709 and 601.

LS provides dedicated timeline for resolve to play out so it can take measurements and make adjustments and luts.

How does this time limited eval work ?

I am also confused what modules should i have and use and LS has different ones.

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu

DaVinci 8.2.1 OSX 10.7.3
MacPro 5.1 2x2,93 24GB
GTX 470 / Quadro 4000
Multibridge 2 Pro


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Steve Shaw
Re: Color management
on Aug 1, 2012 at 9:52:56 am

Hi Margus,

The best would be LightSpace Quick Profiling (or Full LightSpace if the funds are available ;o), with a probe.
The i1Pro2 or i1 Display Pro would be my suggestions.

With the above you would be able to take control of all your calibration and LUT management (including colour space conversion), using LUTs with Resolve, or external LUT boxes.

We can supply a 3 day fully license for LightSpace for evaluation, but to be honest the standard demo is usually all that customer need to understand the power and capability of LightSpace - I would suggest downloading that first and playing with it in 'virtual probe' mode, and then get a 3 day full license for final checks on operation.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Steve


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Margus Voll
Re: Color management
on Aug 1, 2012 at 10:00:53 am

Hi again.

Really fast response :)

I will dig in a bit and see if i get any questions coming up.

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu

DaVinci 8.2.1 OSX 10.7.3
MacPro 5.1 2x2,93 24GB
GTX 470 / Quadro 4000
Multibridge 2 Pro


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Margus Voll
Re: Color management
on Aug 1, 2012 at 10:13:26 am

Did you mean those exact version of probes that you have in LS shop ?

I'm a bit confused which one is better with plasma and projector if any of them ?

We now should probably get suitable probe and lut boxes to go forward it seems to me
so we could test things out.

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu

DaVinci 8.2.1 OSX 10.7.3
MacPro 5.1 2x2,93 24GB
GTX 470 / Quadro 4000
Multibridge 2 Pro


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Steve Shaw
Re: Color management
on Aug 1, 2012 at 10:26:51 am

Yep, those probes...

I'd go for the i1Pro2 personally.

But the i1 Display Pro will work with all display types, and a lot of customers do have that probe.

Cheers,

Steve


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Margus Voll
Re: Color management
on Aug 2, 2012 at 9:19:19 am

I still have some questions :)

Does it seem likely that we can do all in-house if we get the proper gear together or do we need specialist for that? I am hoping to master it with your help by my self but just have to ask you about it.


I have some doubts on projector and plasma if they have good enough rgb presentation
abilities. As i get it special monitor profiling module is part of full LS part ?
Can you comment on that?

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu

DaVinci 8.2.1 OSX 10.7.3
MacPro 5.1 2x2,93 24GB
GTX 470 / Quadro 4000
Multibridge 2 Pro


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Margus Voll
Re: Color management
on Aug 1, 2012 at 10:18:27 am

My bad sorry.

Seems that The i1Pro2 should bee good option to go with now and maybe later get Hubble or Klein ?

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu

DaVinci 8.2.1 OSX 10.7.3
MacPro 5.1 2x2,93 24GB
GTX 470 / Quadro 4000
Multibridge 2 Pro


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Steve Shaw
Re: Color management
on Aug 2, 2012 at 9:36:19 am

The i1Pro2 is good, as it is a Spectro.

The Hubble is no longer being manufactured as there is a supply issue on one component, but I have the last few available - at a discount to the stated price if there is interest. The Hubble is still my favourite probe for full profiling, pre-calibrated with a Spectro if needed (the i1Pro2 for example), but that's rarely required.

I am NOT a fan of plasmas - not because of colour, but because of their ABL (Auto Brightness Level) issues. See: http://www.lightillusion.com/forums.

But, with LightSpace you will be able to calibrate any display to get the best out of it.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Steve


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Margus Voll
Re: Color management
on Aug 2, 2012 at 9:58:35 am

Hi again.

Thank you for the forum link.

I will dig a bit deeper.

I had that ABL feeling myself as plasma seems all the time more saturated and dynamics are not so good.
It is used mainly as for client to see and Penta as main display then we can work it out.


Do you think i could master calibration by Your help and with information from forum ?

I'm really sad that BM lut boxes are not fixed yet. is there any other similar products on the same price range ?

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu

DaVinci 8.2.1 OSX 10.7.3
MacPro 5.1 2x2,93 24GB
GTX 470 / Quadro 4000
Multibridge 2 Pro


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Steve Shaw
Re: Color management
on Aug 2, 2012 at 10:22:20 am

Yeah, Plasmas are ok for client...
We just don't recommend them for main grading.
The Penta is good. What projector do you have?

Anyone can master calibration - it is actually very easy.
I know many other manufacturers try to make it sound like a 'black art', but it really isn't. And we provide a very high level of support!

Unfortunately there are no alternatives to the HDlink Pro at the same price... We use Davio and Pluto.

We are working with eeColor box, but it is not yet usable. The manufactures are working with us to fix the problems.

Cheers,

Steve


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Margus Voll
Re: Color management
on Aug 2, 2012 at 11:04:19 am

Thanks.

I will check projector model and let you know.

I have suspected that there was some black art involved with calibration :)

This is why i asked about it.

I'm glad that you did point on mastering and support.

Based on the "support" you have got me already even if i'm not client yet makes me really happy!

I will try to talk to BM also about their boxes.

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu

DaVinci 8.2.1 OSX 10.7.3
MacPro 5.1 2x2,93 24GB
GTX 470 / Quadro 4000
Multibridge 2 Pro


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