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Ikegami TM20-17R setup

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Ben Edwards
Ikegami TM20-17R setup
on Jun 9, 2012 at 9:27:06 pm

Hi, I am a student and am starting to look at grading. I have a Ikegami TM20-17R connected to a Blackmagic Intensity Pro card. Has anyone got any advice on setting up the monitor?

Also how likely is this setup likely to be?

Regards,
Ben

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Macpro1,1 2007 6GB RAM 2*2 3Ghz Xeon


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Robert Houllahan
Re: Ikegami TM20-17R setup
on Jun 10, 2012 at 6:30:28 am

That is a Standard Def SDI CRT are you going to feed it SD SDI and down convert?

-Rob-

Robert Houllahan
Director / Colorist
Cinelab Inc.
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Ben Edwards
Re: Ikegami TM20-17R setup
on Jun 10, 2012 at 11:18:12 am

I am using Component. By setup I mean setup the monitor (i.e. set the presets) not how to connect it to the computer.

regards,
Ben

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Ben Edwards - Freelance Picture Editor
http://www.funkytwig.com

Macpro1,1 2007 6GB RAM 2*2 3Ghz Xeon


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Robert Houllahan
Re: Ikegami TM20-17R setup
on Jun 10, 2012 at 2:30:03 pm

Probably the best thing you can do is to send a set of color bars to the monitor through the computer and adjust the monitor controls so that the color bars are right. Unless you have a probe and software to calibrate it (to REC 601) that is about all you can do.

Just be aware that if you are trying to grade a HD (REC709) show the monitor will be in a different color space.


-Rob-

Robert Houllahan
Director / Colorist
Cinelab Inc.
http://www.cinelab.com

MAHC-PRO 6-Core 3X GTX285 20Tb SAS Wave Panel Panny 11UK SDI Plasma. Light-Space CMS + Hubble


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Ben Edwards
Re: Ikegami TM20-17R setup
on Jun 10, 2012 at 3:33:51 pm

Thanks, I thought there was a slightly more scientific way of doing it, something to do with the blue only setting.

Ben

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Robert Houllahan
Re: Ikegami TM20-17R setup
on Jun 10, 2012 at 11:30:03 pm

Yeah that is part of using the color bars to set it up by eye the "old fashioned" way. Basically the Test pattern has colors and patches of black and white so you can set color balance and contrast.

-Rob-

Robert Houllahan
Director / Colorist
Cinelab Inc.
http://www.cinelab.com

MAHC-PRO 6-Core 3X GTX285 20Tb SAS Wave Panel Panny 11UK SDI Plasma. Light-Space CMS + Hubble


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Joseph Owens
Re: Ikegami TM20-17R setup
on Jun 11, 2012 at 6:24:21 pm

[Robert Houllahan] "Basically the Test pattern has colors and patches of black and white so you can set color balance and contrast."

"Blue-Only" is hardly scientific, at least IMHO, but for a down and dirty, why not?

Contrast is set with PLUGE (adjust so you can't see the darker black flag, but you can just barely see the brighter one).

Hue and saturation can be set with blue-only and a SMPTE-split/reverse test signal, so the white/blue bars match (saturation) and so that the cyan/magenta bars match (hue). So then you will be generally set up to grade in composite CCIR601. Hope that your output interface is doing the 709 conversion properly. No reason to really doubt it, since it is a fairly straightforward transform. However, generally the on-monitor controls don't work with component inputs -- only composite, where there is an actual phase decode going on.

And there is no way you can set the overall brightness of the monitor by eye -- and that will affect everything else. Most of these old CRTs came with a probe option for a reason.

jPo

You mean "Old Ben"? Ben Kenobi?


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Ben Edwards
Re: Ikegami TM20-17R setup
on Jun 11, 2012 at 6:30:43 pm

OK, so you are saying I should use composite not component for grading, what about s-video. I specificaly got a monitor and output card with component as I thought that was better.

Ben

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Robert Houllahan
Re: Ikegami TM20-17R setup
on Jun 11, 2012 at 7:52:31 pm

Really you should use the SDI input but if you don't have any way to do that Component is ok, sort of. Like what JPo said this is hardly scientific by today's (or the 90's even) standards. Setting the PLUGE gets you somewhat close in 601 but noting critical. I actually have one of those Ike monitors and it is not even a Grade-1 CRT it is more of a CRT to go with an Avid or similar. It was not a bad mid grade CRT fifteen years ago but not so great today.

And this thread should probably be in the basics and Config forum not here....;-)

-Rob=

Robert Houllahan
Director / Colorist
Cinelab Inc.
http://www.cinelab.com

MAHC-PRO 6-Core 3X GTX285 20Tb SAS Wave Panel Panny 11UK SDI Plasma. Light-Space CMS + Hubble


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Ben Edwards
Re: Ikegami TM20-17R setup
on Jun 13, 2012 at 10:02:46 am

Thanks, so I would be better off trying to pick up a Grade 1 Sony BVM, I thought the Ike was a grade 1. I guess the Sony would also be a different colourspace.Monitor does not have a SDI;(.

I have not noticed the other forum. I will use it in future. Sorry,
Ben

PS is there a way to get this thread moved there?

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Ben Edwards - Freelance Picture Editor
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Macpro1,1 2007 6GB RAM 2*2 3Ghz Xeon


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Joseph Owens
Re: Ikegami TM20-17R setup
on Jun 13, 2012 at 4:42:45 pm

Sometimes the moderators will cross reference a thread so that it will appear in multiple fora, but this particular one may not progress much further, as it really represents an extinct approach.

As far as describing a particular monitor as being a "Grade", like Grade 1 goes, it only describes that device's ability to achieve certain performance characteristics when it is new, and part of that is that it needs to consistently sustain that performance over its useful life. But all things die.

Even within strict performance specs, there is some, but not much, tolerance for variation, but your surmise that the SONY operates in a "different colourspace" is a surprising assumption. 709 is 709, and so on. No one ever assumed that a Betacam tape produced on a Sony machine would not play on an Ampex one, or any other machine that supported that format, even if they took different routes to establish that footprint. It is why there is a SMPTE/CCIR standard for most things broadcast, and the total lack of respect or awareness for that is the biggest reason why we are currently in format hell and everybody is feverishly trying to cook up ways to get their kluged-in solutions to conform to some poorly-understood exchange standard. And I think Apple is the biggest single offender and they never got it right.

For CRTs, there is a very specific description of what it takes to achieve a Grade 1 monitor -- unfortunately that is all out the window for solid-state.

jPo

"I always pass on free advice -- its never of any use to me" Oscar Wilde.


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Ben Edwards
Re: Ikegami TM20-17R setup
on Jun 13, 2012 at 5:34:03 pm

Thanks, I meant that HD is in a different colourspace, something someone said on one of these forums. Anyway lets put this to bed. Ben

--
Ben Edwards - Freelance Picture Editor
http://www.funkytwig.com

Macpro1,1 2007 6GB RAM 2*2 3Ghz Xeon


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