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GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?

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David Pirinelli
GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 2:08:49 am

I have tried to answer this question many times in the past and been unable to.

I am an Art Director with MANY years in film biz. I am NOT however a colorist.

And I don't know the software well enough to test beyond "It works"

So I discussed this with someone who knows the software better than just about anybody.

He tried a GTX285 1GB vs a GTX285 2GB.

I will let the expert's words speak :

"With the stock 1G GTX285, using a 5120x2700 Red Epic file and timeline resolution, 2 parallel blur nodes runs out of GPU RAM. With the 2G GTX285, I get up to 14 parallel blurs nodes. Adding the 15th parallel blur node runs out of GPU RAM.

A 5120x2700 resolution timeline would be near a worse case scenario I think, at least on a Mac. Of course you would not usually grade a project at this timeline resolution, but you may well want to render it out at the native file resolution. I think 14 parallel blur nodes is plenty of headroom for most normal grading. I doubt anyone would have an issue with that. So for high resolution timelines, the 2G card would definitely be desirable over the 1G card."

So somewhere between 1 GB and 2 GB seems to be the current "Magic Number".


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Gabriele Turchi
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 2:34:52 am

As stated many times by BMD ,
2 x GTX580 3GB Ram are the minimum requirement to work on a 4K timeline

You probably tried only 1 shot to get those performance (and honestly those performance seem a bit to optimistic for a GTX 285)

g

Davinci Resolve Control Surface
MacPro
Cubix desktop 4
2 Red Rockets
GTX470+GTX470+GTX470
24GB RAM
HP Dreamcolor
Panasonic 58PF Plasma
Ultrascope


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David Pirinelli
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 2:37:40 am

Was a BMD employee who wrote that.


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David Schweitzer
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on May 6, 2012 at 5:43:44 pm

Gabriele,

I am trying to figure whether to buy 2 more GTX 470's or start on GTX 580 and I noticed you config for Resolve...

I snipped your gear below:
Cubix desktop 4
GTX470+GTX470+GTX470

How much vram do you have in each of your 470's? and when clustered together does the ram accumulate to a total sum or remains on a per card sum? Does your system run 5K well? How many nodes, etc?

I am considering just adding two more 470's to my existing 470/1.3GB card. Any recommendations?

Oh, yes...DaVinci 8.2 on a MacPro 8 core with 18GB and a Cyclone 2707 mit MacVidCard GTX 470/1.3GB, GT 120, single RedRocket card, HighPoint RocketRAID 4320 8-Channel PCI-Express x8 SAS 3Gb/s RAID Controller w/16TB 7200RPM Spinners, Decklink Extreme 3D

Thanks in advance!

David


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Gabriele Turchi
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on May 8, 2012 at 5:54:10 pm

hi david ,
sorry for the late reply

3x GTX470 is pretty powerful , but no , the Ram does not accumulate ,

so if you are going to work on above 2K timeline you will need 580...

about how many nodes , i never counted , but i would say that working on red footage (HD timeline ) i think it sustain more than 15 nodes with blur (i assume that using HD DPX even more)

g

Davinci Resolve Control Surface
MacPro
Cubix desktop 4
2 Red Rockets
GTX470+GTX470+GTX470
24GB RAM
HP Dreamcolor
Panasonic 58PF Plasma
Ultrascope


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Gabriele Turchi
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 2:45:32 am

Rohit and Peter both said that 3GB is minimum to Have a smooth session on 4K timeline (and 2 or more
Card are suggested )

I had problems with 3x GTX470 when I tried to render out a movie at 4K
Resolution ...

g

Davinci Resolve Control Surface
MacPro
Cubix desktop 4
2 Red Rockets
GTX470+GTX470+GTX470
24GB RAM
HP Dreamcolor
Panasonic 58PF Plasma
Ultrascope


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Jonathon Lee
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 5:09:55 am

Here is repost of when I asked this...


____
____
Re: GPU RAM question
by Peter Chamberlain on Mar 5, 2012 at 5:53:28 pm

We recommend 3GB GPU ram if you plan on doing 4K work.
1.5MB will get you by sometimes but its not advised.
Peter
____
____

It took me a few tries to, but eventually it was answered by the BMD folks. I'll be testing out one of your GTX 570's w/2.5GB... so we shall see how that does.

- JL


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Margus Voll
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 6:04:14 am

It seems that 1,5 gig tends to run out of memory in some cases and 3 gigs are recommended therefore to
have some memory overhead?

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu

DaVinci 8.2.1 OSX 10.7.3
MacPro 5.1 2x2,93 24GB
GTX 470 / Quadro 4000
Multibridge 2 Pro


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David Pirinelli
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 6:15:19 am

"So somewhere between 1 GB and 2 GB seems to be the current "Magic Number".

Looks like my guess & source at BMD were right.

Good to know what the "Minimum" is.


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Margus Voll
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 6:39:04 am

so we could presume 1,87 ? :)

--

Margus

http://iconstudios.eu

DaVinci 8.2.1 OSX 10.7.3
MacPro 5.1 2x2,93 24GB
GTX 470 / Quadro 4000
Multibridge 2 Pro


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James Milner-Smyth
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 12:48:39 pm

We found the issue with 4K plus rendering may not just be about the cards but the OS you are on.

Using 3xGTX470 on Mac OSX Resolve we could grade OK but it would not render a single frame at 4K: it would stall with no error reported and hang.

Switching the project to a Windows 7 based Resolve with the same GFX cards rendered fine.

James Milner-Smyth

CTO The Post Factory Group, London
Post Factory, Gear Factory, Look Factory
http://www.postfactory.co.uk
http://www.gearfactory.co.uk
http://www.lookfactory.co.uk


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Colin Travers
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 1:41:36 pm

I upgraded to Lion in order to put in a 580 standard Newegg card along with my 120 things work well now for rendering beyond 2K.

DaVinci 8.2 OSX 10.7.3
MacPro 12-core 5,1 2.66 Ghz
32GB RAM x4 8GB
Software RAID 0 (8TB Internal)
Nvidia GT120/GTX580
BMD Extreme3D
HDlink3D DisplayPort
Dreamcolor/Panny VT25
Tangent Wave / Wacom


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Gabriele Turchi
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 2:33:41 pm

the full res rendering thing is still a mystery to me ...

at my office i have Lion 10.3 and i have hard time to render even in HD but having R3D set at full rez (even resetting PRAM)

at home i have Lion 10.3 and it render like charm , there must be something else involved in that issue ..

g

Davinci Resolve Control Surface
MacPro
Cubix desktop 4
2 Red Rockets
GTX470+GTX470+GTX470
24GB RAM
HP Dreamcolor
Panasonic 58PF Plasma
Ultrascope


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Dwaine Maggart
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 4:21:12 pm

I did this test. This was not a test of rendering ability or speed. This was simply a test to see how much having 2G of VRAM on the GPU card over 1G of VRAM would help, as far as getting the "Error running GPU algorithms. GPU memory might be exhausted" error message.

As noted, it helps a lot.

Regarding the GTX580 cards, yes, we recommend using the 3G cards over the standard 1.5G cards, since these are the 2 standard available sizes.

But you would not normally put a GTX580 card inside a MacPro chassis. You more likely will have a GTX285 or Quadro 4000 card. The Quadro 4000 is preferred, since it has 2GB of VRAM stock, making it a much better choice than the standard 1G GTX285 for high resolution timeline grading or rendering, even though the GTX285 has better performance. Now that a 2G GTX285 is available, that might be a better choice for people, if they are in the process of deciding what GPU card to get when putting together a Resolve on Mac system. For Lite users, who can't use timeline resolutions higher than 1920x1080, this is not much of an issue.

I realize that with the new NVIDIA 270.00.00 driver under Lion, you have a wider choice of GPU cards you can use, but the Mac 2G GTX285 will work in Snow Leopard or Lion with the standard Apple NVIDIA driver.

Dwaine Maggart
Blackmagic Design DaVinci Support


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Eric Santiago
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 5:21:57 pm

With all this GPU talk, how will three Quadro 4000 in a CUBIX fare?
We work mainly with R3D and have a ROCKET in that ex.


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Juan Salvo
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 5:24:13 pm

Don't waste your money, get 3xgrx580 3gb instead. Check out the results of the candle tests for more info.

online editor | colorist | VFX | BD author

http://JuanSalvo.com


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Eric Santiago
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 5:26:18 pm

Ill ask the vendor I deal with and see if I can get these.


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Eric Santiago
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 6:10:13 pm

Juan do you mean GTX580?


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Juan Salvo
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 6:13:50 pm

Yes I do. Big fingers, small screen.

online editor | colorist | VFX | BD author

http://JuanSalvo.com


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Paul mitchell
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 9:34:30 pm

Hi guys

now that we are on the VRam topic

I have a Cubix desktop 4 with 3 x GTX 285 with 1 G ram each, does that mean that they add up to 3 G, is the ram then tripled by having 3 cards?

if I was to replace them with 3 x GTX 580 3g each I would then have 9 G ram?

also if anyone know, what's the minimum VRam needed for working just in HD?





note for David Pirinelli

by the way, 1 of the cards is an original mac version the other 2 are flashed and they all show up the same is system prefs inside the Cubix, all three at link speed of 5.0 GT/s and Link width x 16

maybe your mod 580's will be also at 5.0 GT/s inside the Cubix


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David Pirinelli
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 9:42:54 pm

Who wants to find out?

So your Cubix shows up in System Profile under the "PCI Cards" section?

I have heard from several Cubix folk that this section doesn't work.

If it DOES work, I would be eager to do some 580s for someone.

In addition to selling the finished cards, I am also going to be doing a mod service for people's pre-purchased GTX5xx cards. Got the first one one today and will be shipping it out today or tomorrow. If there is a post-production house in Hollywood with some 580s in a Cubix, get in touch. Will take me a couple hours per card, especially if it is a card I haven't written an EFI for, they have to be custom tailored to each card.

From this discussion, it appears to me that the "sweet spot" for people NOT wanting to Cubix is a GTX570 with the 2.5 GB of RAM. Works in a Mac Pro power envelope and fast as a 480 with less heat and power.

A guy picked one up 2 days ago, I'll see if I can get him to post about it. The fact that these can also run Apple LED displays is icing on the cake.


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Kevin Cannon
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 27, 2012 at 12:57:22 am

Hi Dave,

Since you mentioned that you're doing a mod service, here's another question - Is there anything permanent about modding the 580 for Mac, or would you be able to revert a 580 back to PC? I ask because I'm currently running Resolve with a Cubix on a mac and (probably like a few people here) am trying to keep my options open for future machines...

I don't see the cubix itself in the PCI cards, but I see the three GTX 285s inside it and their link speeds (5.0 GT/s). That's on 10.7.3. I'd be happy to test anything with you, but I don't have any 580s yet...

Cheers,

KC

Prehistoric Digital


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David Pirinelli
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 27, 2012 at 4:26:20 am

These cards I mod are being added to, nothing is really being lost.

We ADD a Mac EFI, but the PC BIOS remains.

In fact, the cards can reboot into Windows whenever you want.

Even better, if you use your Mac to boot into Windows via Bootcamp, the PCIE fix goes there too. Currently if you boot into Windows with a PC only BIOS, you will have the same PCIE 1.0 2.5 GT/s issue that exists in OSX. FWIW, flashed ATI/AMD cards have same issue. Apple must have left this little trap to keep flashed cards "inferior" to official Apple ones. The PCIE 2.0 switch is a separate part of ROM that has been fiddled with by Apple for this purpose.

So our cards GAIN Mac EFI and retain PC BIOS. It is this "Dual ROM" that requires a new EEPROM chip as the space necessary is never available on retail cards.

So the cards are truly cross platform once the mod is done.

The ONLY exception is with the multi outlet cards. These are BIOS modded to enable only 2 outputs. For the Dual DVI cards, both DVI ports will work, though HDMI will likely NOT work.

For the Dual DVI, HDMI and DIsplayPort cards, 1 @ DVI and the DIsplayport are the only ports working. TO enable all 4 again will require ref lashing with PC BIOS. THis is a result of how Mac OSX Nvidia drivers work. Note that on the PC Quadro 4800 and Quadro 4000 compared to the Mac ones, they REMOVE a port. The PCB still has the traces, they just don't place the port in . This is why I am very curious to see how the GTX680 drivers will work.

In any case, our new GTX5xx cards work quite well in Windows as well as OSX. If you ever need to use ALL of the ports in Windows, you can ref lash the card in Windows.


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Clay Glendenning
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 27, 2012 at 9:20:28 pm

I'm the guy that picked up a 570 the other day from David. Until our cubix comes in along with a few other things, this is running very nicely in a 2008 3,1 Mac Pro. I'll be replacing the tower itself soon, but until then it has a few additions you would expect: decent amount of RAM, an SSD, RAID array, etc. I was on my way to pick up a 570 from the store before a Reduser post led me here, then to David, who was extremely helpful given my busy schedule.

The EFI, monitor capability, and general ease of installation make a ton of sense for anyone quickly upgrading a few machines in a post house. I had zero problems. Before I continue, I just want to say that this card works incredibly well with CS5.5 (and photoshop cs6 beta). I have a boatload of 4k and 5k footage. Quite a bit of that footage is high-frame rate including a fair amount with HDR. I'll try not to veer off topic here, but fashion video and still work with loads of effects and grading has been handled quite well.

We all know that there are better/faster options available, and I will be one of those making some modest additions to speed up my .r3d workflow. However, for a lot of people the 570 is certainly the "sweet spot" David is suggesting. Yes, I could use some super horsepower for tackling 5k HDR, but the system as it stands now "works" in tremendous part due to the card. The addition of the card makes a ton of sense as an affordable addition worth considering before other additions, then iterating upon as you need to.

I'll be doing some heavy lifting tomorrow in Resolve, and will update with system specs, numbers, etc.

Blows my mind how affordable running a resolve system has become in such a short period of time. Cool time to be making moving images.

Cheers guys.


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Juan Salvo
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on Apr 26, 2012 at 10:04:47 pm

I believe multiple gpu each process on their own. Se each need 2gb ram.

online editor | colorist | VFX | BD author

http://JuanSalvo.com


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David Schweitzer
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on May 6, 2012 at 5:50:08 pm

Hi Colin,

You wrote you, "I upgraded to Lion in order to put in a 580 standard Newegg card along with my 120 things work well now for rendering beyond 2K." What did you mean by put in a 580 standard Newegg card?

Thanks,

D


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Clay Glendenning
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on May 6, 2012 at 10:24:59 pm

I'm guessing he meant he picked up the "base" version of the card from newegg.com, which looks to be 1.5gb of ram for around $380 at time of writing.

On http://www.newegg.com enter "GTX 580" for your search.

If anyone here is a little confused, there are lower ram versions of these cards, and versions closer to 3gb available as well. I think it is an important thing to note, and I think the extra ram is worth it.


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David Pirinelli
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on May 7, 2012 at 3:12:27 am

Based on this thread, it seems that1.5 is bare minimum for 4K.

So the GTX570 should be gotten in the 2.5GB version and the GTX580 should be gotten in the 3 GB version, whenever possible, if you plan to use the higher res files.


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Colin Travers
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on May 7, 2012 at 3:27:54 am

Its actually the 3GB GTX580 which i purchased, along with the appropriate adapter cable.

A clean Snow leopard install on the SSD and then an update to Lion w/ the latest Nvidia drivers is necessary for this card to work on a MacPro at least from what I understand as of this week. I am able to render 5K HDR, albeit not in any way fast render times w/out an expander, RedRockets & multiple GPU..but hey it works as opposed to the gtx285 or 470(flashed) which did not.

DaVinci 8.2.1 OSX 10.7.3
MacPro 12-core 5,1 2.66 Ghz
32GB RAM x4 8GB
Software RAID 0 (8TB Internal)
Nvidia GT120/GTX580 (CUDA 4.2.7)
BMD Extreme3D
HDlink3D DisplayPort
FSI LM-2461W / Panny VT25
Tangent Wave / Wacom


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David Schweitzer
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on May 7, 2012 at 2:07:52 pm

Colin,

Am I correct, you are have installed a STOCK PC (Unflashed) GTX580 and the OS is seeing it? WOW!

Thanks for reporting this.

Building:
DaVinci 8.2.1 OSX 10.7.3
MacPro 8-core Harpertown 2.8 Ghz 18GB RAM
RocketRAID (Ø) 16TB
Cylclone 2707
REDRocket
Sonnet eSATA
Nvidia GT120 GTX470 GTX580
DeckLink Extreme 3D
Panasonic BT-LH1700W
Tangent Element
Logitech Trackball Wacom


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Colin Travers
Re: GPU Ram for 4K projects, how much is enough?
on May 7, 2012 at 2:23:25 pm

Yes.

This is not news..for a couple months this has been an available option with the newest nvidia drivers on Lion - make sure the rest of your system is up to spec however.

DaVinci 8.2.1 OSX 10.7.3
MacPro 12-core 5,1 2.66 Ghz
32GB RAM x4 8GB
Software RAID 0 (8TB Internal)
Nvidia GT120/GTX580 (CUDA 4.2.7)
BMD Extreme3D
HDlink3D DisplayPort
FSI LM-2461W / Panny VT25
Tangent Wave / Wacom


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