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advice on reference monitor purchase wanted

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Pepijn Klijs
advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 5, 2012 at 12:55:34 pm

Hello,

I am currently investigating what my next new reference monitor will be. I'm looking for something around 24", with HD SDI etc etc. I don't want to buy overseas (US for example) for obvious reasons (service etc). So I am basically stuck to what the European market has to offer, which is not bad, cause they have almost everything except Flanders Scientific. My budget for this monitor cannot exceed 5.000 euros and every euro I can save is very welcome, cause I can invest that in better features for my, also new to build, workstation (Resolve on Windows).

So far I'm really interested in the JVC DT-V24G1.

http://www.jvcpro.eu/jpe/global/product.3367.140.html

It's, I think, a good panel, for a very good price, 2900 euros. What I like about it are some specific features such as the volume meters onscreen and the ability to calibrate using a Spyder color 3 or better device and JVC's own software that comes with the panel.

I would appreciate any suggestion or opinion!

Thanks

Avid/FCP Editor, Amsterdam, The Netherlands
http://www.pepijnklijs.nl


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Juan Salvo
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 5, 2012 at 2:17:21 pm

FSi does service and support in the EU market. They are probably the best value in your range.

I have and really like the Sony PVM-2541. But it's limited viewing angle really just makes it good for an operator. Not a client monitor.



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Knut Jansohn
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 6, 2012 at 10:31:39 am

Hi,

you might have a look at LG W2420R. It uses the same panel as the hp dreamcolor.
It provides hardware calibration with i1-pro, 10 bit panel, very consitent image, accepts 1080i, colorspace emulation.
Downside is no sdi.
But as far I can see it gives the best price-performance ratio.
A Monitor is as good as it's calibration. So I recommand to leave the spider untouched and use x-rite i1-pro instead.


K.


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Pepijn Klijs
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 6, 2012 at 11:09:03 am

Thanks for both replies!

I'm still thinking that FSI doesn't give service in Europe, cause that's what they told me at the last IBC 2011 in Amsterdam. BUt I just sent them an email to confirm this.

The LG W2420R does look interesting, but also raises two worries for me:
1. I know that dreamcolor users have to invest in another card to output the 'right' signal over hdmi. I believe it's a decklink card.
2. Working a lot for television I still often encounter interlaced footage, which I can't detect on a regular computer screen. I wonder how the LG works with that. It's quite a crucial thing for me. Any experience with this?

So I'm still thinking to pick up the JVC DT-V24G1. Anyone ever worked with this panel?

Avid/FCP Editor, Amsterdam, The Netherlands
http://www.pepijnklijs.nl


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Knut Jansohn
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 6, 2012 at 11:55:02 am

[Pepijn Klijs] "1. I know that dreamcolor users have to invest in another card to output the 'right' signal over hdmi. I believe it's a decklink card."
Which video card do you use? Extreme 3d provides hdmi as well.
Extern sdi-hdmi/dvi converter is an other way. Maybe usefull with a plasma later.


[Pepijn Klijs] "2. Working a lot for television I still often encounter interlaced footage, which I can't detect on a regular computer screen. I wonder how the LG works with that. It's quite a crucial thing for me. Any experience with this?"
As written, no issues with 1080i 25. Looks pretty good. Lcd aren't interlaced devices anyway. So the signal has to be rehashed by the electronic. The JVC like any other broadcast-lcd has to do that too.


[Pepijn Klijs] "So I'm still thinking to pick up the JVC DT-V24G1. Anyone ever worked with this panel?"
Yes I do, but can't say that it gives a better image than the w2420r.
It is not as consistent as I would like to see. And it provides only 8 bit (with 10 bit 'dithering'). Anyway if it's well calibrated and you put it beside a BVM-L231 it will be hard for most people to see a difference in natural images.


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Teo Rižnar
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 6, 2012 at 8:02:17 pm

I would say no to JVC (I have in studio previous version of this 24" panel) Sony OLED form my experiences, viewing angle is a bit better than JVC. But still I would go for good used CRT Sony BVM. You can get them in EU for that budget.

Color grade reel:
Cofounder of http://nuframe.si postproduction


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Pepijn Klijs
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 6, 2012 at 8:06:06 pm

Any specific reason why I should say no to JVC? What are the cons?

Avid/FCP Editor, Amsterdam, The Netherlands
http://www.pepijnklijs.nl


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Pepijn Klijs
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 6, 2012 at 8:08:52 pm

[Knut Jansohn] "As written, no issues with 1080i 25. Looks pretty good. Lcd aren't interlaced devices anyway. So the signal has to be rehashed by the electronic. The JVC like any other broadcast-lcd has to do that too."

But on the Sony lcd's at work I can clearly detect interlaced footage, so I'm assuming this will be the same with the JVC panel, right?

Avid/FCP Editor, Amsterdam, The Netherlands
http://www.pepijnklijs.nl


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Knut Jansohn
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 6, 2012 at 10:04:28 pm

[Pepijn Klijs] "on the Sony lcd's at work I can clearly detect interlaced footage"

Hm, do you mean that you can detect issues generated from wrong field dominance?
I'm not sure if that will make itself felt (I think so for both) but I could test that if you prepare a short sequence with such issues.


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Pepijn Klijs
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 7, 2012 at 6:29:32 pm

Maybe I'm not explaining it right... One more try!

Sometimes I edit shows that were shot progressive, like with a XD CAM, in progressive mode. And sometimes there's some footage among the footage that was shot interlaced (let's assume the cameraman made a mistake a forgot to configure the cam right). When I edit the footage on my iMac I cannot see the difference between interlaced and progressive, but when Im at a decent facility with a reference monitor hooked up thru sdi, I can immediately spot it.

So that was my question more or less... Can you spot/detect interlaced footage on a dreamcolor or LG24xx (forgot the numbers)?

Avid/FCP Editor, Amsterdam, The Netherlands
http://www.pepijnklijs.nl


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Knut Jansohn
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 12, 2012 at 4:17:28 pm

[Pepijn Klijs] " Can you spot/detect interlaced footage on a dreamcolor or LG24xx (forgot the numbers)?"

fcp shows then a single field on sdi in still mode. And that makes itself felt on both monitors (w2420r and DT-V24G1E). You will clearly see the edges at the lines. Hope that's it, what you asked for.


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dennis quintanilla
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 7, 2012 at 4:04:52 am

Hi,
you'd better stay away from the w2420R! LG decided to discontinue this monitor and it's nearly impossible to get a hand on a flawless unit or prepare yourself for a long and difficult quest. I can't say about the Planar PX2491W. While being the exact same display maybe Planar addressed the 2420 issues by means of a proprietary firmware which I very much doubt tho. Otherwise once calibrated and provided that you can live with a pink hue shift on lower corners and you disable optimus on your quadro (resolve won't like it but the 2420R will ask for it) this is one of the best monitors I've been working with. I know how weird it may sound but the 2420R is a very paradoxical display indeed. Surprizingly enough I can achieve an almost perfect calibration with an i1 display2 and unmodified matrices, easily on par with what I get on my Eizo 243w! It works for me and it will probably work for you too if you really want a 2420R but you might be inspired to look into a different direction. LG should stick with only making the hardware! Hope it helps. Cheers.


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Knut Jansohn
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 7, 2012 at 3:11:29 pm

I never had such issues with w2420r. Very consistent, no remarkable shadings.
Planar says nothing about showing interlaced video, specially 50 Hz!

In my opinion the i1-display2 is not convenient for an accurate calibration. In particular not for led-backlights! And it's discontinued too :)

Next nominee: eizo cg232w, build for postpro, supports 1080i 50 - but a little bit out of budget.


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dennis quintanilla
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 7, 2012 at 8:48:56 pm

"I never had such issues with w2420r. Very consistent, no remarkable shadings"

I guess you've been very lucky. You're the 1st user I've come across who received a flawless 2420... different production date probably (feb.2010 here).

"Planar says nothing about showing interlaced video, specially 50 Hz!"

The embedded deinterlacer does a very nice job at interpolating full frames from 50interlaced material (Pal576i as well as 1080i) and it does it slightly better than the 2480zx.

"In my opinion the i1-display2 is not convenient for an accurate calibration. In particular not for led-backlights!"

Yes in theory you're absolutely right! As I noted it was genuinely surprising but a very nice surprise.

I second you on the CG232W but if the point is to save some quids it does indeed make little sense. What about the LMD-2341W ?
cheers


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Pepijn Klijs
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 7, 2012 at 9:06:42 pm

[dennis quintanilla] "What about the LMD-2341W ?"

Hhmmm... It's almost as expensive as the PVM-2541 mentioned earlier in this thread, but that's an OLED...

So what if I had to choose between the two, the LMD-2341W and PVM-2541?

I just saw an oled screen once and that was a bvm I believe and it was stunning, especially when the guy told me it was 'on' while I thought it was off cause that's how black its black is. (there is an old saying, once you go black....)

Avid/FCP Editor, Amsterdam, The Netherlands
http://www.pepijnklijs.nl


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dennis quintanilla
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 8, 2012 at 1:28:28 am

hmmm this is not that easy a choice... The LMD-2341W will give you better viewing angles and will probably last longer but with regard to black purity I doubt if anything in town can beat the PVM-2541 in your price range. Ofc if you can afford a bvm 250 or even a dolby reference monitor... well u know :) I don't reckon myself as an expert and I don't want to anyhow influence you but I've never heard any complaints about the 2341w so far. I guess it's a relevant point too. Let us know what you decide eventually.


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Fred Ricci
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 8, 2012 at 7:35:37 am

Hi Dennis. How did you proper calibrated the Eizo 243?

NEHALEM OCTO 2,26
GT 120
GTX 285
8 Giga RAM
SOFT RAID 8 Tera
Wave
Eizo 243 + Hdlink displayport
DAV, COLOR, FINAL CUT AND MEDIA COMP


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peszteres lászló
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 8, 2012 at 4:30:59 pm

this is a best: http://quato.com/english/IP242Excellence.php, or http://panasonic.com/business/plasma/TH-42PF30U.asp


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Fred Ricci
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 11, 2012 at 12:48:17 pm

Hi there Peszteres.
How do you deal with burn in problems? I am working in a feature 2,35 and the black bars got burned in.
We have the 50" model with dual hdsdi card.

NEHALEM OCTO 2,26
GT 120
GTX 285
8 Giga RAM
SOFT RAID 8 Tera
Wave
Eizo 243 + Hdlink displayport
DAV, COLOR, FINAL CUT AND MEDIA COMP


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peszteres lászló
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 14, 2012 at 7:27:20 am

Hi,

You need some high-end pro dci colorimeter, or spectrophotometer......

I measured with this:

http://www.chromapure.com/products-d3pro_accupel_professional.asp


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dennis quintanilla
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 10, 2012 at 5:08:41 am

Hi Fred. I stick to colornavigator which does a fair enough job and validate with udact. Most of the time I use it as UGRA reference for prepress purposes(5800/1.8/120cd) and my 2420r as rec709 monitor(close to sRGB emulations are almost perfect despite the crappy truecolorfinder). What about you ? cheers


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Fred Ricci
Re: advice on reference monitor purchase wanted
on Apr 11, 2012 at 12:45:27 pm

Hi Dennis, I use colornavigator too but it's a shame that it doesn't work when the monitor is being fed through hdlink.
Cheers

NEHALEM OCTO 2,26
GT 120
GTX 285
8 Giga RAM
SOFT RAID 8 Tera
Wave
Eizo 243 + Hdlink displayport
DAV, COLOR, FINAL CUT AND MEDIA COMP


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