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25 fps Pal project to 24 fps DI - Advice needed!

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Chris Meagher
25 fps Pal project to 24 fps DI - Advice needed!
on Apr 2, 2012 at 9:03:37 pm

Hi everyone! Looking for some advice in the theoretical world on a film conform. Here's the skivvy:

- FIlm shot in Europe, 16mm at 24fps
- Telecine done to DVCAM PAL at true 25fps transfer rate
- Rushes brought into FCP without conforming to 24p or linking to Cinema Tools database
- Movie edited
- Rudimentary lists turned over at 25 fps with 25 fps chase

Now the producers want to conform and do DI/Color Correction at 24 fps. A mess, I know. But here is where I am trying to save them some time and money and I need opinions as to whether this should work. The only other option seems to be a complete overcut.

- Have new lab re-transfer all film rolls using original lab's ALEs to maintain timecode and keycode relationship at 25 fps to HDCAM SR 4:4:4.
- Media Manage FCP project to a 25fps HD project, and recapture necessary clips using 25 fps TC
- Conform and drop in effects as if normal video online conform
- Render to Cineon image string and have Baselight/DaVinci operator interpret string as 24 fps instead of 25fps

Basically I do a video online in 25fps and only change the frame rate of the resultant rendered data. In theory this would give me a conformed movie that would be the exact same total number of frames, just running at the correct rate for the Digital Intermediate and (possible) film out. I understand that sound has it's own issues, but fortunately, I've not been tasked with solving that one. If anyone has any advice or comments, I'll be incredibly thankful.

Best,
C

Chris Meagher
Editor/Colorist
North Hollywood, CA
chrismeagher at mac dot com

Chris Meagher
Editor/Colorist
North Hollywood, CA
chrismeagher at mac dot com


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Andrew Anderson
Re: 25 fps Pal project to 24 fps DI - Advice needed!
on Apr 2, 2012 at 10:21:31 pm

Why not just conform in 25fps as per the offline,
Once all good render a 25fps master,
Setup up a new 24fps project, bring your previous render in and render out or play out 24 fps


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Chris Meagher
Re: 25 fps Pal project to 24 fps DI - Advice needed!
on Apr 2, 2012 at 10:39:15 pm

Yeah, so basically what I said above?

Chris Meagher
Editor/Colorist
North Hollywood, CA
chrismeagher at mac dot com


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Joseph Owens
Re: 25 fps Pal project to 24 fps DI - Advice needed!
on Apr 3, 2012 at 3:35:54 pm

Why is 25 fps part of this process?

jPo

You mean "Old Ben"? Ben Kenobi?


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Neil Sadwelkar
Re: 25 fps Pal project to 24 fps DI - Advice needed!
on Apr 3, 2012 at 6:26:22 pm

You're exactly right.

This is exactly how films in PAL lands work.
Films that are...

Shot at 24fps
Telecine'd at 25 fps to PAL tapes
captured as 25 fps to FCP
conformed 25fps to 24fps in Cinema Tools
edited on a 24@25 timeline in FCP

The 24@25 fps timeline in FCP yields an EDL which is nominally 25fps not 24fps. Resolve, Smoke, Lustre, whatever, work as 25fps. When we need to do a sound check, we provide a 4% speeded up sound. Just to check sync.

After recording out to film neg, we get the exact number of frames which were shot. A film projector then plays out the same film at 24fps. Which syncs with the original unspeeded sound.

-----------------------------------
Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India


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Robert Houllahan
Re: 25 fps Pal project to 24 fps DI - Advice needed!
on Apr 3, 2012 at 8:21:41 pm

Basically what everyone else said and an Arriscan or Northlight etc. scanner will take a 25fps EDL and just scan the frames to DPX per reel based on that EDL. Then you can conform and color in 25fps or conform in 25fps and play in 24fps.

-Rob-

Robert Houllahan
Director / Colorist
Cinelab Inc.
http://www.cinelab.com

MAHC-PRO 6-Core 3X GTX285 20Tb SAS Wave Panel Panny 11UK SDI Plasma.


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Chris Meagher
Re: 25 fps Pal project to 24 fps DI - Advice needed!
on Apr 4, 2012 at 5:54:05 pm

Perfect! Thanks everyone. This has been both educational and reinforcing for me. I'm ready to tackle this thing head-on.

Best,
C

Chris Meagher
Editor/Colorist
North Hollywood, CA
chrismeagher at mac dot com


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