FORUMS: list search recent posts

Converting 24P to 2997

COW Forums : Art of the Edit

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Chris Holland
Converting 24P to 2997
on Jan 17, 2011 at 4:44:48 pm

Hi,

I am not sure if this is the right forum to post this in but I am putting it here and if someone suggests that I move it I will but I feel like it doesn't conform to one software.

Our camera is a HVX-200 and we often will shoot 720/24P. We deliver on BETA 90% of the time still.

Since we still do so often my question is what is the proper way to convert a 24P project to output at 29.97 ?

Our workflow generally involves a rough cut in Premiere or FCP. Then we finish in Aftereffects. Sometimes the footage is keyed and sized to fit in a 720x480 comp but at 23.976. Other times, if there isn't a ton of motion design and it's a straightforward edit we will edit at 720/24 and then scale it down into a 480/24p comp and render for Premiere When we were using a Blackmagic Decklink Studio card it automatically converted it to 29.97 when it laid to BETA and we had no issues but now I am using a Aja Kona LHi and it SD at 24P is not supported.

So basically what is the best way to convert a 24P project into a 29.97 format and keep the audio matched ?


Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Chris Holland
Editor/Animation/Design
hollandedit.com


Return to posts index

Stephen Smith
Re: Converting 24P to 2997
on Jan 17, 2011 at 5:41:01 pm

Your capture card may be able to do it. For example, the AJA card in my machine will convert 24 to 30 in real time as I lay the timeline to tape. Take a look at your card and see if it can do it. By the way, the AJA card does an awesome job of converting the frames. Hope this helps and best of luck.

Stephen Smith
Utah Video Productions

Check out my Motion Training DVD

Check out my Motion Tutorials


Return to posts index

Chris Holland
Re: Converting 24P to 2997
on Jan 17, 2011 at 10:22:23 pm

Stephen,

Thanks for the response. I am using an AJA Kona LHi card. It may be able to do it when I am working in a 720 or 1080 timeline but I can't see a way to do it in SD. If I try to use a 24P timeline in FCP or Premiere at 720x486 it gets really glitchy just trying to play the timelines.

Because of that I am looking at a way to convert from 24P to 30P in aftereffects but I am not sure of the best setup for that.

Unless we can get away from laying to tape soon or I can figure out a way to convert the 24P timeline to 29.97 simply we may switch back to Blackmagiv when we get the next of our systems.

Any other ideas or workflows for going Standard Def 24P to Standard Def 30P ?

Thanks.

Thanks.

Chris Holland
Editor/Animation/Design
hollandedit.com


Return to posts index


Stephen Smith
Re: Converting 24P to 2997
on Jan 17, 2011 at 10:51:46 pm

If you don't want to use your Kona card you can use Compressor. It does a great job. Here is an article on how to do it: http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/converting_frame_rates_compressor.html

Stephen Smith
Utah Video Productions

Check out my Motion Training DVD

Check out my Motion Tutorials


Return to posts index

Chris Holland
Re: Converting 24P to 2997
on Jan 18, 2011 at 12:12:16 am

Stephen,

Thanks for the link. Honestly I would rather use the Kona Card to frame convert but I just haven't figured out the right settings to get it to work yet and not play back glitchy and stuttery.

Chris Holland
Editor/Animation/Design
hollandedit.com


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: Converting 24P to 2997
on Jan 17, 2011 at 11:07:55 pm

[Chris Holland] "Unless we can get away from laying to tape soon or I can figure out a way to convert the 24P timeline to 29.97 simply we may switch back to Blackmagiv when we get the next of our systems."

So you want to convert 23.98 to 29.97...not when you output, but totally file based? Not going out to tape? Because the capture cards...ALL OF THEM...only do the conversion when you output. They don't aid in the conversion internally. Not AJA, not Blackmagic, not Matrox. No one. For that you need After Effects or Compressor.

Going back to BMD cards won't get you what you want.

You can also get a KiPro or KiPro Mini and output to those devices, converting the frame rate. And still have a digital ProRes file.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index


Chris Holland
Re: Converting 24P to 2997
on Jan 18, 2011 at 12:18:37 am

Shane,

Thanks for getting back to me. I actually am only worried about the frame rate conversion if I am laying to tape. If I could just send the stuff file based it would solve the issue because I would just give it 24p. Though I am still having an issue watching things on my monitor.

It is an avi file that is most stuttery so maybe that is part of the problem. But even when I tried to just use bars and tone and a slug it wouldn't switch on my monitor from the bars. The audio was fine but not the video.

But as I mentioned the problem is that I can't figure out if it's possible with the Lhi card to lay to tape from a 23.976/24p timeline in Standard Def.

I will send an e-mail to AJA tommorrow and see what they say but I just wanted to see if anyone else ran into this issue.

Thanks again.

Chris Holland
Editor/Animation/Design
hollandedit.com


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: Converting 24P to 2997
on Jan 18, 2011 at 12:43:04 am

[Chris Holland] " actually am only worried about the frame rate conversion if I am laying to tape."

Then don't be. I have done 23.98 to 29.97 to tape at least 200 times. No issues. The conversion works perfect.

[Chris Holland] "Though I am still having an issue watching things on my monitor."

What's the problem?

[Chris Holland] "It is an avi file that is most stuttery so maybe that is part of the problem."

Ahhhh! CONVERT IT! FCP doesn't like working with media that isn't one if the codecs it supports. You will not get any sort of playback or real time performace with non-FCP codecs. You won't get anything but a still image on your monitor with a non-FCP codec. Convert it. That is a must if you plan on going out to tape.

[Chris Holland] "But even when I tried to just use bars and tone and a slug it wouldn't switch on my monitor from the bars. The audio was fine but not the video."

VIEW>VIDEO PLAYBACK needs to match your sequence settings. If you are playing out 1080i 29.97, then you need to set 1080i 59.94 (same frame rate...different number. Confusing as hell.) If you have 720p 23.98, then choose 720p 23.98. It has to match...and it MUST be an FCP codec.

[Chris Holland] "But as I mentioned the problem is that I can't figure out if it's possible with the Lhi card to lay to tape from a 23.976/24p timeline in Standard Def."

Yup. Absolutely possible. In the Kona Control Panel you set your SECONDARY out to SD, and then choose your SDI out or your Component out to SECONDARY. And you will see a box appear between the center box and the output...it will say DOWNCONVERT. I've done this so often with the Kona 3 and KHi I can't count.

[Chris Holland] "I will send an e-mail to AJA tommorrow and see what they say but I just wanted to see if anyone else ran into this issue."

Your issue is the codec you are trying to output. AVI. Gotta convert that.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Chris Holland
Re: Converting 24P to 2997
on Jan 18, 2011 at 10:23:29 pm

Thanks Shane. I have been playing with this all afternoon

[Shane Ross] "[Chris Holland] " actually am only worried about the frame rate conversion if I am laying to tape."

Then don't be. I have done 23.98 to 29.97 to tape at least 200 times. No issues. The conversion works perfect."
When you say you've gotten it to 23.98 to 29.97 to tape was that SD to SD or was it HD to SD ?

I actually got it to play a 24P SD clip out fine but it was Rendered as a PRO Res file out of Aftereffects and it was just a text animation.. I tried to convert a couple avi 720x480 23,976 files to Pro Res at the same settings using the export>QT conversion both at 720x486 & keeping them 720x480 but just making them Pro Res and they all either stuttered or were blurry. I can't figure out the right conversion settings to get existing files to play and export correctly. I even let the sequence settings change when I drug it into the timeline to make sure that the sequence was the same and it still played jittery. Part of the problem is that I am going from a PC based Premiere system to an FCP system and it would be helpful to figure out the conversions instead of having to redo everything.





[Shane Ross] "What's the problem?"

The jitter I mentioned.



[Shane Ross] "VIEW>VIDEO PLAYBACK needs to match your sequence settings. If you are playing out 1080i 29.97, then you need to set 1080i 59.94 (same frame rate...different number. Confusing as hell.) If you have 720p 23.98, then choose 720p 23.98. It has to match...and it MUST be an FCP codec"

The problem here is that on the KONA Lhi card 24 P in Standard Def is not an option for video output. I don't think it is supported, it even says it's not supported in the manual.

I understand that it can downconvert and upconvert from 720 and 1080 at 24P. The thing I am still trying to solve is taking a 720x480 23.976 file and how to convert it so it will play out to tape fine.

I am sure I am doing something wrong but even with all you've told me I still can't get it to work



[Shane Ross] "Yup. Absolutely possible. In the Kona Control Panel you set your SECONDARY out to SD, and then choose your SDI out or your Component out to SECONDARY. And you will see a box appear between the center box and the output...it will say DOWNCONVERT. I've done this so often with the Kona 3 and KHi I can't count."

Here is my question from this. I read that when you are in FCP it takes over the Control Panel so i can't set that. Even when I do go into the Control Panel 525i/23.98 in Secondary is greyed out. If I change my frame buffer to 525/23.98 the screen goes wacky.

Sorry to waste your time here. Maybe I am just not getting it.

Thanks for your help.

Chris Holland
Editor/Animation/Design
hollandedit.com


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]