FORUMS: list search recent posts

digitizing for documentary edit

COW Forums : Art of the Edit

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Derek Klein
digitizing for documentary edit
on Mar 13, 2010 at 11:38:57 pm

I previously heard that the best way to cut a documentary was to digitize ALL footage. I was told to bring my footage in at 20:1 resolution for interviews and 10:1 for b-roll. My question is in FCP how do I do this? Second question is when I am finished with the edit don't I need to bring the footage back to full resolution? How do I do all of this?


Return to posts index

Mark Suszko
Re: digitizing for documentary edit
on Mar 14, 2010 at 2:56:26 am

Yes, the low rez footage is a draft copy you jettison, retaining the all-important edit decision list info and metadata about the shots and their time codes and the names of the tapes. The computer then re-assembles the final version, you render out any effects that need it, done. More or less.


Return to posts index

Derek Klein
Re: digitizing for documentary edit
on Mar 14, 2010 at 4:31:33 pm

So in FCP what settings must I use to bring this footage in at low res? Second, since i will be digitizing full tapes is FCP going to only bring back in the in and outs of the clips used in the timeline when i re digitize at full res? How is this done or what will these tasks be under in my manual? Thank you for your time! It's greatly appreciated.


Return to posts index


Andrew Kimery
Re: digitizing for documentary edit
on Mar 14, 2010 at 5:31:55 pm

It sounds like you come from, or the person you talked to, comes from an Avid background 'cause FCP doesn't offer capture settings like that. First off, how much footage do you have and what format is it? Given that technology keeps getting better and cheaper the need to do a 'traditional' offline/online workflow.


-Andrew

3.2GHz 8-core, FCP 6.0.4, 10.5.5
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (6.8.1)



Return to posts index

Derek Klein
Re: digitizing for documentary edit
on Mar 14, 2010 at 5:38:23 pm

Andrew,

thank you for your time. I have about 85 hours of footage that is all shot in 1080i HDV format. I only have about 1TB drive space and want to bring all of the footage in. There is no way i can fit it in as Pro Res footage.


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: digitizing for documentary edit
on Mar 15, 2010 at 4:27:28 am

[Derek Klein] "85 hours of footage that is all shot in 1080i HDV format."

That takes up about 1.05TB of space, full res. So just get another 1TB drive for under $300. Boom, you can capture and edit full res. NO need for this old school offline/online edit. That is SOOO 1990's. I am working on an Avid on a 2 hour doc, all P2, all FULL RES.

[Derek Klein] "There is no way i can fit it in as Pro Res footage."

No need. Just change your render settings to ProRes, or media manage the final project as ProRes. Or just keep it as HDV. But rendering as ProRes is a good option. Depends on how you are finishing it.

BUT, if you insist on the offline/online workflow...

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/offline_rt.html

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index


Derek Klein
Re: digitizing for documentary edit
on Mar 15, 2010 at 4:39:50 pm

Thanks Shane. When you say it would take 1.05TB is this assuming I capture as HDV? Isn't the HDV codec kinda low quality? I do have a Kona 3 so I think I could get a little more out of it can't I?


Return to posts index

Nick Griffin
Re: digitizing for documentary edit
on Mar 14, 2010 at 8:58:12 pm

I agree with Andrew, but what I think he meant to say was:

[Andrew Kimery] "Given that technology keeps getting better and cheaper there's NO need to do a 'traditional' offline/online workflow."

The whole low rez / offline thing began when the largest hard drives you could get were in the 160 Megabyte range. Yes, for the kids in the audience let me repeat 160 MEGABYTES. And if your system was really slick you had a raid using four of them. And they cost a butt-load 'o cash. And if you were really serious you had extra sets to swap in and out for different projects. This was how it was done on Media 100 as well as Avid. (Back when Dinosaurs roamed the Earth.)

Today I believe a 1.5 Terrabyte SATA drive can be had for about $125. I'm not too good with math (especially math based on 1024 as the multiplier, but I believe that 1.5 Terrabytes is something like 9,000 times the storage space of 160 Megabytes.

So, no, Derek. I wouldn't worry about doing the low rez "offline" / high rez "online" thing. Just do try to throw away the stuff you didn't use before archiving at the end of the project.



Return to posts index

Rocco Forte
Re: digitizing for documentary edit
on Mar 14, 2010 at 9:57:53 pm

Yes, you should capture all the footage. Then organize it as you see fit. The ratio terminology is very Avid, but you can apply the same principals in FCP if you want to. The simplest way to do this is to use the Pro Res Codec. Put simply: capture everything you have using Pro Res Proxy and when you're done you can online it to Pro Res 422 HQ. You would do this using Media Manage. Having said that, I currently have about 12TB in just three drives sitting here with nearly all the footage I need all captured at full res (some 2K, some 720P and some 1080). So the old offline/online paradigm is becoming less relevant as drives get bigger. Depending on your needs, you may not need to capture at a lower resolution. Best of luck.


Return to posts index


Andrew Kimery
Re: digitizing for documentary edit
on Mar 15, 2010 at 7:54:52 am

Yeah, what Shane said.

HDV has such a small footprint that there's no need for the traditional offline/online, IMO. Which you should be thankful for 'cause those things never, ever go as smoothly as you think they should.

Nick,
That is what I meant to say and thanks for helping out as my brain seemed to fading in and out while I posted. I blame daylight savings time.

3.2GHz 8-core, FCP 6.0.4, 10.5.5
Blackmagic Multibridge Eclipse (6.8.1)



Return to posts index

Derek Klein
Re: digitizing for documentary edit
on Mar 15, 2010 at 4:37:39 pm

Thanks guys! I do just want to clarify one more thing...... i'm using Kona 3 in to FCP so when digitizing my HDV footage what codec should i use to first off get the best quality possible and secondly conserve drive space? I know that if I captured Pro Res HQ it would be almost 800GB per hour at least thats what my AJA calculator is telling me.


Return to posts index

cowcowcowcowcow
Shane Ross
Re: digitizing for documentary edit
on Mar 15, 2010 at 5:20:18 pm

[Derek Klein] "When you say it would take 1.05TB is this assuming I capture as HDV?"

Yes, that is if you capture as HDV. If you capture as ProRes (NOT HQ! Big no for HDV!) that will be 6.4TB. So just get an 8TB Raid, or 12TB Raid so you have room for renders and whatnot. Or just edit HDV and render to ProRes, and deal with a 2TB Raid.

[Derek Klein] " Isn't the HDV codec kinda low quality?"

Well, yes it is. But if you shot to HDV, then the damage is already done. You can't recoup the quality by capturing as ProRes. Capturing HDV as HDV is a straight data transfer, zero quality loss. Any format you can capture via firewire is this way...DV, DVCPRO HD, HDV.

[Derek Klein] "I do have a Kona 3 so I think I could get a little more out of it can't I?
"


Nope. You can't get any more out of it. What you might gain is a better color space to color correct at 10.bit 4:2:2, but your footage is already 8-bit 4:2:0, so that information is already gone. And rendering HDV as ProRes will get you that color space. Sorta. ProRes would be better for EXTREME color correction. And a LOT easier on the computer processors, and editing will be much faster.

If you offline, then online edit, you have to deal with media managing, recapturing, fixing speed changes, redoing any and ALL moves on still images, and slipping clips to make sure they are in sync again. This might be worth it, but know that this takes time. If you have FCS3 with ProRes Proxy, then the image size is already full size, so those won't have to be redone. There's a lot involved, and unless you have dealt with those issues, you should avoid them. Very few offline editors are also the online editors, because it is a different skill set with different demands.

[Derek Klein] "m using Kona 3 in to FCP so when digitizing my HDV footage what codec should i use to first off get the best quality possible and secondly conserve drive space?"

Best quality possible...Uncompressed 10-bit. Conserve space...offline RT. Best quality possible AND conserve space at the same time? ProRes 422.

[Derek Klein] " I know that if I captured Pro Res HQ"

Which you should absolutely positively NOT DO. See, this is why you need an ONLINE editor for this task. They know that ProRes HQ is the wrong choice. It is meant for 10-bit file formats, and for 2K and 4K workflows. HDV isn't 2K or 4K, and it is an 8-bit codec. This is the technical stuff that the online editor deals with. That and knowing how to read scopes, how to color correct, how to output a show to meet network specs...and much much more.

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index


Kai Cheong
Re: digitizing for documentary edit
on Mar 18, 2010 at 2:04:45 pm

And if I'm not mistaken, HDV doesn't lend itself to an offline-online workflow due to the way its timecode work (the whole inter-frame compression bit). You won't be able to recapture your footage accurately to the frame.

Kai
FCP Editor / Producer with Intuitive Films
http://kai-fcp-editor.blogspot.com
--
Now 'LIVE'! Check Out The Intuitive Films Blog @ http://intuitive-films.blogspot.com

At Intuitive Films, We Create: TV Commercials, Documentaries, Corporate Videos and Feature Films
Visit us @ http://www.intuitivefilms.com
--
MacBook Pro 2.4GHz | 4GB RAM | FCP 5.1.4 | Mac OS X 10.5.7

8-Core Intel Mac Pro 2.26GHz | 8GB RAM | FCP 6.0.2 | Mac OS X 10.5.6 | 3.0TB CalDigit VR | 2 x 24" Dell S2409W


Return to posts index

Shane Ross
Re: digitizing for documentary edit
on Mar 18, 2010 at 3:02:29 pm

Well, I did that myself twice, HDV recaptured as ProRes, because there was all sorts of mixed media. It recaptured fine.

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

Kai Cheong
Re: digitizing for documentary edit
on Mar 18, 2010 at 3:49:29 pm

Hi Shane,

To hijack Derek's thread: is re-capturing HDV fairly stable and successful in general - or there's still a fair chance that the TC will be borked?

What I've been doing with HDV footage so far is to capture them in HDV>ProRes via Firewire.

Kai
FCP Editor / Producer with Intuitive Films
http://kai-fcp-editor.blogspot.com
--
Now 'LIVE'! Check Out The Intuitive Films Blog @ http://intuitive-films.blogspot.com

At Intuitive Films, We Create: TV Commercials, Documentaries, Corporate Videos and Feature Films
Visit us @ http://www.intuitivefilms.com
--
MacBook Pro 2.4GHz | 4GB RAM | FCP 5.1.4 | Mac OS X 10.5.7

8-Core Intel Mac Pro 2.26GHz | 8GB RAM | FCP 6.0.2 | Mac OS X 10.5.6 | 3.0TB CalDigit VR | 2 x 24" Dell S2409W


Return to posts index


Shane Ross
Re: digitizing for documentary edit
on Mar 18, 2010 at 4:59:44 pm

[Kai Cheong] "is re-capturing HDV fairly stable and successful in general - or there's still a fair chance that the TC will be borked? "

It has worked for me just fine. It might slip a frame - or +, but that is true of ANY footage. HDV is a tad more prone than usual, but out of 480 shots or so, I slip about 10 clips.

Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]