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PLEASE -Suggest Best Editing Book (( No history-just the meat of where and when to cut ))

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Brad Jenkins
PLEASE -Suggest Best Editing Book (( No history-just the meat of where and when to cut ))
on Oct 19, 2009 at 6:14:59 am

I need some suggestions from some of you Pro's. What do you think the best book for practical Editing principles is? Please, no history, just want the meat of "WHERE AND WHEN" to cut. Something with some intermediate and advanced principals/theory. If you know of something that is geared to cutting commercials that would be great.
Thanks, love this site.



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Kai Cheong
Re: PLEASE -Suggest Best Editing Book (( No history-just the meat of where and when to cut ))
on Oct 19, 2009 at 2:06:10 pm

I've read a few books on editing... but I don't think I've come across something that fits what you're looking for exactly. Probably because editing, being so diverse and dynamic, is really hard to pin down with hard and fast rules. Doing the same kind of cut in one piece might give a different effect in another piece. Sometimes I wonder why I make certain edit decisions... but find it hard to really explain myself because it all seems so intuitive! [not trying to pimp my company here!].

I kept a short list of what I've read [not updated in a while though] on my blog: http://kai-fcp-editor.blogspot.com - to summarize:

In the Blink of an Eye - by Walter Murch

The Conversations: Walter Murch and the Art of Editing Film

Behind the Seen: How Walter Murch Edited Cold Mountain Using Apple's Final Cut Pro and What This Means for Cinema

First Cut: Conversations with Film Editors

POST: The Theory and Technique of Digital Nonlinear Motion Picture Editing

The Technique of Film and Video Editing, Fourth Edition: History, Theory, and Practice

'twas interesting reading about the process of editing which varies from editor to editor, and project to project.

Some interesting sharing from editors here about how they work:
http://www.mewshop.com/mew_media/vault/


Kai
FCP Editor / Producer with Intuitive Films
http://kai-fcp-editor.blogspot.com
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At Intuitive Films, We Create: TV Commercials, Documentaries, Corporate Videos and Feature Films
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Rocco Forte
Re: PLEASE -Suggest Best Editing Book (( No history-just the meat of where and when to cut ))
on Oct 19, 2009 at 5:58:48 pm

If there were an answer to "where and when" to cut, we'd all be out of a job...

But I rather like these two books which illustrate - in there own way - why certain editorial choices are more relevant than others:

THE VISUAL STORY - Bruce Block
THE LEAN FORWARD MOMENT - Norman Hollyn

Best of luck.


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Shane Ross
Re: PLEASE -Suggest Best Editing Book (( No history-just the meat of where and when to cut ))
on Oct 20, 2009 at 5:38:29 am

I second THE LEAN FORWARD MOMENT. That does give you good insight on when and why to cut.




Shane



GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD...don't miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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grinner hester
Re: PLEASE -Suggest Best Editing Book (( No history-just the meat of where and when to cut ))
on Oct 19, 2009 at 7:08:00 pm

No book can tell you where and when to cut, man. That is subjective opinion based on the elements before you. Nobody needs to read to learn how to edit anymore than having to shoot video to learn how to read a book. Sit down, start cuttin' and be open to hittin' undo. This is how you'll become a good story-teller.



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Mike Cohen
Re: PLEASE -Suggest Best Editing Book (( No history-just the meat of where and when to cut ))
on Oct 20, 2009 at 3:12:07 pm

http://www.amazon.com/When-Shooting-Stops-Cutting-Begins/dp/0306802724

While mostly about film editing, there are some interesting stories about how Woody Allen and other young directors got their start, and in the opinion of the writers, how the editor saved their careers.

I agree that there is not a cheat sheet for where to cut, what you can glean from all of these books is the theory of good storytelling, and use this background to develop your own style.


Mike Cohen


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cowcowcowcowcow
Tim Kolb
Re: PLEASE -Suggest Best Editing Book (( No history-just the meat of where and when to cut ))
on Oct 20, 2009 at 9:54:23 pm

[grinner hester] "No book can tell you where and when to cut, man."

That is correct. This is one area where your skill level at editing is different than your software knowledge. You can get trained on software...to gain skill at editing itself, you need to sit in the seat and look a no-way-out continuity crisis in the face enough times to skip over the initial pang of doom and just get back to work...



TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,


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Kylee Peña
Re: PLEASE -Suggest Best Editing Book (( No history-just the meat of where and when to cut ))
on Oct 22, 2009 at 8:04:35 pm

Just wanted to second these:

In the Blink of an Eye - by Walter Murch

The Conversations: Walter Murch and the Art of Editing Film

Behind the Seen: How Walter Murch Edited Cold Mountain Using Apple's Final Cut Pro and What This Means for Cinema

THOSE!

Also second the "there IS no book for that". Above come close though.


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Tim Wilson
Re: PLEASE -Suggest Best Editing Book (( No history-just the meat of where and when to cut ))
on Oct 22, 2009 at 9:38:18 pm

Asking to talk about editing without mentioning other movies is like trying to talk about music without mentioning any music.

It's like trying to talk about language without being able to talk about any specific words.

Asking "where and when to cut" is like asking "what and how to cook." Until you can answer the question, what do you want at the end, you can't know if you're getting rib roast or rhubarb pie.

Now, having said that, "Good Eats" is a wonderful show about the science of cooking. Once you have that under your belt, a lot of the recipes take care of themselves.

For something generally analogous, try taking a look at "Cinematic Storytelling: The 100 Most Powerful Film Conventions Every Filmmaker Must Know," by Jennifer van Sijll. I think this will be perfect for you. She covers each example of absolutely critical, foundational-level visual language in two pages. That's it. Two pages. I think that the most fidgety reader can stand two pages. Lots of pictures too.

I'm kind of kidding with you...except for the part about NEEDING to know history. A hyper-spazz skaterb0i video and an uber-elegant drama both have a visual language, with more elements in common than you might think. Gotta learn to talk before you can say anything.

Start with Jennifer's book.

Tim






Tim Wilson
Creative Cow Magazine!

My Blog: "Is this thing on? Oh it's on!"

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Scott Sheriff
Re: PLEASE -Suggest Best Editing Book (( No history-just the meat of where and when to cut ))
on Oct 30, 2009 at 6:40:40 am

"Please, no history, just want the meat of "WHERE AND WHEN" to cut."

There is no way anyone can right the definitive book on where and when to edit. Editing is subjective and material dependent. Most books on editing are going to look at what was done in the past and why, which is the history you are not interested in.

I believe examining (either by reading or watching) what others have done (history) plus 'seat time' is the road to learning the art.


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Marcello Mazzilli
Re: PLEASE -Suggest Best Editing Book (( No history-just the meat of where and when to cut ))
on Oct 30, 2009 at 7:29:52 am

While I cannot help you with a title.. I can understand your question... There are situations where you can almost get a "rule" although these are somehow related with history. Taste evolves.. and cutting a video today is much different than doing it 10 or 50 years ago. Here follow some basic general rules.. just to understand if this is the kind of info you are looking for. Then maybe somebody else can help you to find a title...

1) To following clips need to be substantially different. If they are to similar.. it looks wrong
2) If you are cutting while an actor moves an arm is better to cut just before or just afterwards and not while he is moving
3) If two people are speaking you can cut audio and video in different points to make a softer cut (so video switches to the second person while the first is still speaking or after the second has allready started to speak)

etc...

Is this the kind of info you need?

I'm sure there are plenty of books with this kind of things.. but the best thing to me, as somebody said, is to try for yourself and understand from "mistakes". Also please remember that editing video is not mathematics and it will probably be more often going "against" the rules than when you follow them

siRoma di Marcello Mazzilli
Corporate video productions in Italy
http://www.siroma.com


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Brad Jenkins
Re: PLEASE -Suggest Best Editing Book (( No history-just the meat of where and when to cut ))
on Oct 30, 2009 at 3:45:46 pm

Yes, thats exactly what im looking for. Suggestions and guidlines just as you wrote, i understand there are no hard and fast rules, but guidlines just as you posted. As well as things like when subjects entering or leaving frame, what is more visually pleasing. thanks for everyones replies


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Marcello Mazzilli
Re: PLEASE -Suggest Best Editing Book (( No history-just the meat of where and when to cut ))
on Oct 30, 2009 at 4:01:10 pm

This is a must...

http://www.amazon.com/Technique-Film-Editing-Second-Reisz/dp/0240514378/ref...

There is also some history... but this is really a classic

siRoma di Marcello Mazzilli
Corporate video productions in Italy
http://www.siroma.com


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