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Credit where credits due...

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Marcus Bird
Credit where credits due...
on Sep 12, 2008 at 8:43:43 pm

Hi everyone,

Not sure where else to post this... Any suggestions on putting it somewhere else for a better response would be much appreciated.

I worked on a documentary earlier this year for 2 months (it dragged its feet to say the least) and after having taken multiple roles throughout, I was finally credited, amongst other things, as the editor. Since I finished up, the client made a couple of changes during an afternoon, totaling approx 1 minute of changes to a 40 minute piece. The new editor has been credited as 'additional editor', I guess as I did the offline and online and they dont know how else to title him.

My problem with this is that I invested a lot of time and energy into the doc, and it feels like an insult to all of that effort to have someone come in and make such a minor change and get, what feels like, an equal credit to an unequal amount of work.

Is there anything I can do to change this? Am I being ridiculous to even think of raising it with the client? It was a very small crew, so it feels more significant. I'm not trying to undervalue the other editors work so much as get the proportionate credit to my work.

As a final note, i think its worth mentioning that the other editor is the clients son, has had no training and hasn't worked with any edit suite or editing software prior to this job.

Any thoughts on this would be hugely appreciated.

Best,


Marcus



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Stephen Smith
Re: Credit where credits due...
on Sep 12, 2008 at 9:56:14 pm

I think:

Assistant Editor
Intern
Daddies Boy

would all work.



Stephen Smith
Salt Lake Video

Check out my DVD Money Making Graphics & Effects for Final Cut Studio 2


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Thompson Coles
Re: Credit where credits due...
on Sep 12, 2008 at 10:01:28 pm

I think the title I've seen is "Additional Editing By" that seems more appropriate


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rocco forte
Re: Credit where credits due...
on Sep 13, 2008 at 5:41:03 pm

I cut a 90 min feature, and one guy edited a two minute scene. He was rightly credited with additional editing credit (back end) because he did some additional editing. Just like your guy. He didn't assist me, so shouldn't be credited as an assistant. Is it really worth kicking up a fuss like some kind of Hollywood starlet? Is it really important? ;o) Probably not. You are credited as editor after all. They could have put EDITED BY: then your name and his name if they wanted to, but they didn't. Take the money, take your credit, put it on your reel, be kind and move forward.








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Ron Lindeboom
Re: Credit where credits due...
on Sep 13, 2008 at 5:56:07 pm

[Marcus Bird] "Am I being ridiculous to even think of raising it with the client?"

Yes.

Want more? Read Rocco Forte's post, he offers a good balanced look at the situation.

Want to let it fester and embitter you and make a stink about it instead? Be prepared to never work with the client again and gain a reputation as a prima donna that is hard to work with.

Ron Lindeboom


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Mike Cohen
Re: Credit where credits due...
on Sep 14, 2008 at 12:37:39 am

Coming from the corporate world, the only credit that goes on most videos is the name of the company that paid for the job.


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Mark Suszko
Re: Credit where credits due...
on Sep 14, 2008 at 9:18:37 pm

I've mentioned this before in a similar context. If you're not religious, you can still take a lesson from the parable of the vineyard and workers.

Master owns a big vineyard and the grapes are ready to harvest, nearly bursting, and bad weather is threatening to damage some of the crop before it can all be brought in. Master hires a number of gatherers first light and they go to work. Mid-day, gauging progress and feeling the winds shifting, master decides they need more help to make it on time, goes out and hires extra workers. Close to the end of the day, it's almost done but not quite, master brings in a few more guys for the last hour. Crop all in, he pays everyone off and wants to go home to dinner. But the foreman is upset.

"You paid those guys that just worked an hour the same amount that you paid us to work all day since morning!"

"Yeah, what about it?"

"That's just wrong!"

"What's wrong? Did I or did I not, pay you exactly what we agreed to this morning?"

"Well, sure."

"Who's money is it I paid with?"

"Yours".

"Do I or do I not have the right to do what I wish with my own money?"

"You do".

"Then don't be jealous of somebody else getting a good deal, when you yourself got a perfectly square one".


This is a story I have to tell myself quite often, as I think about other people taking credit for my work or having a success that eludes me. If no union or contractual obligations were broken in the way the credits were assigned, just let it go, brother. Just let it go.





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Charlie King
Re: Credit where credits due...
on Sep 15, 2008 at 12:01:05 am

Ditto Mark and Ron, nuff said.

Charlie

ProductionKing Video Services
Unmarked Door Productions
Flamingo Las Vegas Hotel
Las Vegas, Nevada


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Mike Cohen
Re: Credit where credits due...
on Sep 15, 2008 at 5:05:11 pm

I feel the same way.
I see a lot of books, podcasts and blogs about "rewarding employees" and "retaining employees" with perks, outings, team building exercises, ropes courses, etc.

What happened to "a good salary and benefits" being a good motivator for doing your job?

Mike


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Rory Brennan
Re: Credit where credits due...
on Sep 15, 2008 at 8:02:17 pm

That's right Mike,

God forbid people should actually do a good job for something they are paid to do.

Marcus, look on the bright side, he could have itched your name all together.

RB

Rory Brennan
Editor
New York City


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grinner hester
Re: Credit where credits due...
on Sep 16, 2008 at 1:39:59 pm

I got paid by the hour puttnig my boss' name in the credits instead of mine for way too many years to even read credits anymore.
As an editor, you are in the oppeasing business. That means taking the blame, should there be any to have and handing off all credit when things go great. If ya don't dig that, you are going to have to become a producer.

About 10 years ago, I'd lay off a "mom" reel of shows I thought she'd like. I'd put my name in the credits as head groovy dude and she liked that. Try it. it'll make ya feel better.




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Bob Cole
my favorite credit story
on Sep 16, 2008 at 5:32:07 pm

I helped jury an independent film festival once and saw a film about a boy who hears mysterious sounds in his apartment, from a creature upstairs somewhere.

There was only one actor, a teen-age boy. At one point there was a low tracking shot, pointed up at the boy as he walks away, down the corridor. The movement of the dolly was irregular... almost... like it was walking.

I got it! There was only one explanation for the odd movement of the dolly. The camera was in a little wagon, & the wagon was being pulled by a rope attached low to the actor's leg.

I was not surprised when the credit roll came up:

"Adam Jones did EVERYTHING."

I wish I could remember the real name and find out how this guy is doing. It was a pretty good little film, and the credit "list" was the best I've ever seen.

Bob C



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rocco forte
Re: my favorite credit story
on Sep 16, 2008 at 6:50:48 pm

That's a good one... We often get a big laugh at screenings when the list of Associate Producers pops up. We have close to 100. (If you donated at least $1 you got a credit. We raised quite a bit this way, as it happens....)




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Chaz Shukat
Re: Credit where credits due...
on Sep 17, 2008 at 7:33:21 pm

At the rate that credits go by these days, and the size of the credits, and the small portion of the screen they are relegated to, next to visually distracting images competing for the viewers eye, what are you really loosing? Nobody reads the credits except relatives and people in the biz and then they would have to be looking for your name to even have a chance of seeing it even subliminally.

Chaz Shukat
Author of "EDITING REALITY"
http://www.chazmoedit.com


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Marcus Bird
Re: Credit where credits due...
on Sep 18, 2008 at 1:14:55 am

Thank you to everyone for such valuable feedback, its certainly helped me here.

I believe the reason it bothered me so much initially is due to the fact that im quite modest about my talents and felt cheated by someone showboating, in a way. It didn't help that the other editor had apparently badmouthed my work.

Either way, I really appreciate all the comments and many of them will remain in the back of my mind until the next time!

Best of luck to all! :)


Marcus



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Eric Susch
Re: Credit where credits due...
on Sep 22, 2008 at 9:07:33 pm

Marcus,

I actually have a credit story that may help you feel better. Years ago I did the audio post for a low budget independent action feature. I did ALL of the sound work even some of the recording of the dialog on set. And there wasn't much dialog either. Most of the film was gun battles, car chases, jousting, more gun battles, musket battles, more gun battles, and general running around - all shot MOS. I did lots and lots of foley and used every trick in the book and some that weren't to keep the sound exciting like an action movie is supposed to be. And it was sci-fi too so a lot of the sound work had to be invented and recorded, all by ME in my personal studio.

The movie wasn't that great but I was quite proud of my contribution. It improved the film quite a bit. The producer called it "The $150,000 movie with the 1 million dollar soundtrack."

When the movie came out my credit was listed as "Sound Designer" which is as good a credit as any I suppose. But, below my name were listed nineteen FICTIONAL PEOPLE for various audio post positions. They obviously did absolutely nothing, being fictional and all. I did that work by myself but the producer wanted to make the movie look like a bigger production so he padded the credits.

...and that's the way it was.

____________________________________

Eric Susch

http://www.LetsKnit2gether.com

http://www.EricSusch.com

Follow me on twitter @EricSusch



Come and see our presentation at the
New Media Expo in Las Vegas.




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Bob Cole
delete
on Sep 22, 2008 at 9:16:47 pm

(delete)


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mark harvey
Re: delete
on Oct 1, 2008 at 2:40:32 pm

Good point Bob...just kidding.

Seriously though, I work on a lot of shows, and the first thing to get cut, always are the credits....I can't remember the last time my name appeared in a credit roll....but you know what, I don't really care. I know what I did, and as such I know that if it is good, I can put it on my reel.

Mark

Mark Harvey
Senior Editor
Le RĂ©seau des sports


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grinner hester
Re: delete
on Oct 1, 2008 at 4:50:37 pm

the bottom line is we edit to buy groceries, not to brag.
good thing too. After 20 years of cuttin' I have very little to brag about.



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William McGrath
Re: delete
on Oct 1, 2008 at 9:20:13 pm

Another angle: The more inflated the credits are, the more important the production looks. So you may actually benefit from this.

---
william


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