FORUMS: list search recent posts

Bin vs. Timeline Preference

COW Forums : Art of the Edit

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Lsbells
Bin vs. Timeline Preference
on Aug 2, 2007 at 8:16:58 pm

I'm curious what editors believe in regards to preference in edit workflow - do you prefer to cut up clips ahead of time in the bin, or do you prefer to divide up the clips on the timeline? And do you think it makes a difference?

I'm switching from one edit system to another (Velocity to Premiere Pro) and in so doing I'm revisiting my thinking on everything to do with workflow. I work on a wide variety of projects, and the common denominator seems to be an enormous amount of raw footage.





Return to posts index

Nick Griffin
Re: Bin vs. Timeline Preference
on Aug 3, 2007 at 5:49:29 pm

Because I'm a child of the sixties I'll answer "Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks." I don't think there's a right or wrong, just what works best and is fastest for you. That said, here's what I do:

1) Set fairly casual ins and outs on digitizing. Not always able to do this on the fly with tape rolling, but try to anyway.

2) After digitizing review redundant takes and if there's no possibility of needing something from it, delete the redundants. This might also be a place for creating additional category bins as a means of keeping organized.

3) Go through the clips setting precise ins and outs. At this stage the edit has more than begun in my head and I may add notes to clips to help later.

4) On a "workspace" timeline start playing with the more interesting and/or challenging scenes. If they work they can later be copied over as whole scenes to the real program timeline.

5) Create the program timeline, first inserting bars, tones and (if needed) space for a slate.

6) Lay in working music. If narration runs the full length and/or sets the pace of the show I'll put it in here, at the start. Music does not have to be right at this stage as there's almost always a need to edit to length anyway.

7) Start building on the programs timeline from the beginning, brining over complete scenes from the workspace as needed.

8) Slip, slide, re-trim as needed.

Hope this, one man's process, helps with your thinking. And congratulations on using the changeover to re-think your process. Smart thinking on your part.



Return to posts index

Mike Cohen
Re: Bin vs. Timeline Preference
on Aug 3, 2007 at 7:47:37 pm

if you are new to Premiere, beware some things you are accustomed to may not work.

For example, I used Media 100 for the 6 years prior to switching to Premiere. In Media 100, I would digitize the whole tape and chop it up on the timeline, then drag the clips to a bin, rename and trim them, then get editing.

In premiere you cannot drag anything from the timeline to a bin, so you have a few choices for this type of workflow, both of which I use:

Option 1
Capture a whole tape, drag to the timeline, chop up into usable pieces.
Repeat for each tape.
Use Project manager to create a new project. Each separate clip on the timeline will now appear in your bin, and you can manually rename these in the bin. However when you rename a clip in a bin, it does not rename the AVI files on your hard drive, so beware should you need to find an offline clip, it will not have the same name.
Also, you can rename clips on the timeline, but again, the new names are not reflected in the bin or the hard drive.

Option 2
Capture a whole tape, then open the movie in the editor, set in and out point, and create a subclip, which places a subclip in the bin based upon your in and out. You can do this for a whole tape and populate your bin with subclips. It is probably easier to do it this way, however depending upon your preferred comfortable workflow from your previous application, Option 1 may be a good exercise.

Option 3
The best thing to do is to log your tape and capture only the portions you need. I used to like capturing the whole tape and chopping it up afterwords because I have lots of other non-editing work i can do while tapes are being captured. However you then need to spend time logging the captured video, so the time savings is actually negligible.

Option 4
You can do option 1, that is capture the whole tape and chop it up on the timeline, and then create a separate timeline (sequence in premiere) for each tape. Then when you are editing you just find the clip you need, essentially using timelines in place of bins. I would never do this, however if I have captured some stock footage to fill in the holes in an edit, sometimes I lay these out on a timeline just to trim the clips, then copy and paste them where they are needed. But for more than a dozen or so clips this would be too difficult.

Premiere does not yet let you have multiple bins and sequeences open in separate windows, and there is no keyboard shortcut to toggle between open bins or sequences, so organization is the key.

Back in the tape days we liked to do a paper edit before the online session, either an EDL, or hand written time code notes on a script.

Good luck making your move.

Mike Cohen


Return to posts index


Steven L. Gotz
Re: Bin vs. Timeline Preference
on Aug 3, 2007 at 9:20:11 pm

Mike,

I don't mean to be contrary, however ...

First of all, if you chop it up on the timeline you can doubleclick on each segment, which puts the original clip into the Source monitor with the appropriate in/out points set. From there you can drag it to the Project panel, creating subclips.

Option 1. - Please note that Project Manager trims DV AVI but not other formats, like HDV.

Premiere Pro CS3 allows multiple bins open at the same time. If Lsbells is moving to a new platform, hopefully it will be to the latest software.

I highly recommend Scene Detect on capture when there have been a lot of starts and stops. It allows you to capture the entire tape and then throw out the clips that are garbage. And to easily sort shots as Great, Good, OK, and "no way unless desparate".

Please note that HDV will not scene detect in Premiere Pro so a free third party app (HDVSplit) comes in handy.

So to answer the original question, feel free to cut on the timeline if that is your preference. Doubleclick each section and drag from the Source monitor to make a subclip if desired.

Steven


http://www.stevengotz.com



Return to posts index

Mike Cohen
Re: Bin vs. Timeline Preference
on Aug 10, 2007 at 4:37:47 pm

Steven

Thanks for the clarification. Is this a CS3 function? In 2.0 I cannot drag a clip from the source monitor to the project, only back to the sequence.

Mike


Return to posts index

Steven L. Gotz
Re: Bin vs. Timeline Preference
on Aug 10, 2007 at 6:27:24 pm

First I need to say that I was incorrect. You don't doubleclick, you use "T" in Premiere Pro to get a Match frame, and "M" in CS3. Instead of calling up the whole clip in the Source Monitor, it calls up the clip with the proper in/out.

And no, this is not new, it is available in Premiere Pro 2.0.

Just set in/out in the Source Monitor, but the mouse in the middle of the picture, and drag.

Steven


http://www.stevengotz.com



Return to posts index


grinner
Re: Bin vs. Timeline Preference
on Aug 11, 2007 at 10:52:11 am

editing aint like cookin'.
Cooking is an additive process. You'll see shef types add stuff in pinches and smidgens. Editing has undos and stuff. awesome.
Man, I grab whats usable and chunk it on a timeline. I then look at my duration of everything and weigh it against my targeted total running time. I then go though subtractivly until I'm on time.
I'll make another pas for music and transitions and tweek where needed to gt my time right on and then one more pass for layers of love. Effects, colorcreativity, wild hairs, ect.
Bam!



Return to posts index

Scott Davis
Re: Bin vs. Timeline Preference
on Aug 23, 2007 at 9:41:19 pm

[grinner] "editing aint like cookin'.
Cooking is an additive process."


Interesting. I've always said it was an additive process and not a subtractive one. Whenever I try to work subtactively I get totally lost and freaked out. I always do better to build out scenes and then figure out how the whole damn thing goes together.

Scott Davis

Scott Davis



Return to posts index

Scott Davis
Re: Bin vs. Timeline Preference
on Aug 23, 2007 at 9:44:13 pm

Forgot. One thing I do (this is in FCP) is to create a timeline for each tape I have. I then lay in all the clips sequentially. That way if I say "where is that shot of the woman with the red coat" and red coat is not in the clip descriptor I can scan really fast through the tape timelines looking for the woman with the red coat, match frame, open my working timeline and then drop it in. I personally remember things visually way better than by words.

Scott Davis

Scott Davis



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]