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Had to share...

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Pixel Monkey
Had to share...
on Mar 2, 2007 at 11:40:13 pm

Editing a magazine style show for local PBS station. Need B-Roll extreme-wide shot of wine vineyards that holds still on a tripod for about six seconds. After 20 minutes of scrolling through footage, I found it - perfect framing, perfect iris for that "golden hour" evening...

I hit play right at the moment when the cameraman set up his shot.

Yes! - There's even audio of crickets! Perfect! Then about 1.5 seconds into the shot, the camerman barks to his grip, "Wow, whatta great frikkin' shot, man!" and starts panning. And yes of course the pan head is leveled for the start of the pan and not the end. He then digs himself deeper by saying "Hi Mr. Editor, I know you can hear us talking about what a great frikkin' shot it is."

...had to share. One more useless shot for the cutting room floor.

______
/-o-o-
`(=)`/...Pixel Monkey
`(___)

A picture says 1000 words. Editors give them meaning.



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Mark Suszko
Re: Had to share...
on Mar 3, 2007 at 6:51:01 pm

Been there
Done that
Got the t-shirt

I shoot as well as edit, so when shooting I really try and do things that will make me happy in the edit later. Rule number one is at least six slowly counted seconds of pre and post-roll on shots and moves, which at times is torture to wait for. it really should be even longer, but six is what I default to as manageble for ENG type shooting. For more languid EFP type work, it should be more.


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mike velte
Re: Had to share...
on Mar 3, 2007 at 8:03:33 pm

Editing a wedding reception and notice that the camera man is wooping things up pretty loudly but the guests seem to be having a ball, then notice about 20 minutes of recorded black at the end of the reception tape during which I can hear the camera man talking to a friend while driving home..."Man I am waisted..smoked way too much weed between ceremony and reception...bla bla bla.
Reviewed the edited reception with the client and she asked "Can you take the camera man's screaming off the video?


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Tim Kolb
Re: Had to share...
on Mar 3, 2007 at 11:27:31 pm

Those are funny, funny stories...heart-breaking in the post room...but funny.

I had a client (who decided to stop paying us and buy their own camcorder) once come in with some footage of a big machine...it was tall...not wide...so they shot it..."portrait".

Then they were mad at use because the options of scaling the picture down to fit the screen when it was right-side up or crop it to go full screen weren't their first choice...then they commented that "...this was why (they didn't) hire us anymore...we should be advanced enough to "handle" this sort of footage..."

What're ya gonna do?...just laugh I guess...unfortunatley in spite of myself...I did.







TimK,
Director,
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net


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Del Holford
Re: Had to share...
on Mar 6, 2007 at 3:04:58 pm

Oh the memories :-)
About 14 years ago I edited a documentary that included the slave embarkation point in Sierra Leone in West Africa. Beautiful ocean, good shots of slave holding pens, none of which lasted for more than 2 seconds. If it lasted longer it was panning and you could hear the cameraman talking and the natz were wasted. The producer was shooting also on a Sony Hi8 and he got better shots by accident than the "professional" cameraman on a BetaSP camera. I've done 14 documentaries with that producer and he now knows to tell the cameraman to lock it down, roll tape, walk away for a full minute and keep his mouth closed. Experience helps.

Del
fire*, smoke*, photoshopCS2
Charlotte Public Television


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Pixel Monkey
Re: Had to share...
on Mar 6, 2007 at 11:30:54 pm

[Del Holford] "Del
fire*, smoke*, photoshopCS2
Charlotte Public Television"


Del - you work on Fire and Smoke systems at Charlotte Public Television? How many Big Bird tote bags and Charlie Rose mugs had to be pledged off to pay for THAT setup?!?!?



______
/-o-o-
`(=)`/...Pixel Monkey
`(___)

A picture says 1000 words. Editors give them meaning.



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Del Holford
Re: Had to share...
on Mar 7, 2007 at 9:14:37 pm

We're funded by the county and do a tremendous amount of local programming, both from our studio and from the edit suites. I will probably do 4 documentaries this year and a couple informational programs plus finishing 20 half hour studio shows for a series in HD. I work in fire - mainly in HD. In smoke the other editor has done one documentary so far and a lot of the promotional and interstitial work.

We purchased these systems because we had a mandate to go HD back in 2000. We went from analog to digital at that time. The only HD editing system back then (selling at NAB) was fire. Avid and Quantel weren't there and FCP wasn't heard of yet. We bought Discreet edit for offline. smoke does SD (and by fiber network occasionally does some HD work to help me out) and fire does HD and occasionally SD. I do a lot of pre-production elements (like opens, funders, roll-ins) for the studio programs as well. Our studio has 4 GVG LDK-6000 Mk II cameras through a Philips DD-35 Seraph switcher (now know as the GVG Kalypso or X-TenDD). We use a Sony HDW-700A in the field.

Now we are seriously looking for capital funding to keep all of our systems up to date. Software versions are not a problem but storage solutions and hardware going end of life present their challenges.

Del
fire*, smoke*, photoshopCS2
Charlotte Public Television


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Greg
Re: Had to share...
by
on Mar 8, 2007 at 8:12:46 pm

Here's 2 stories for ya.

1. I was working in a large corp, as the manager of video production (one man band) A client in a field office shot their footage for me to edit. They were outside on a windy day.
Every 5-6 seconds there would be something passing in front of the lens. I couldn't figure out what the problem was, until I froze the image, and the word Sony appeared on screen. The same Sony emblem that happened to be on their lens cap, which was tied to the camera in the wind.

2. Another internal client shot their own spokesperson outside their restaurant, which was next to the road. They only used the on-camera mike. Apparently at an equal distance between the camera and the spokesperson was a puddle in the road. Every time a car passed as you would hear the splash of tires going through the puddle. Yet the spokesperson continued talking. The client asked me to remove the splash sounds. Wondered why I couln't do it in our new $1.5 Million studio.




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marisu fronc
Re: Had to share...
on Mar 9, 2007 at 8:24:57 pm

Why does this remind me of the client who manufactured those tacky clear vinyl slipcovers for sofas (this was back in the 70's) they wanted to shoot their "before & after" spot themselves - "look at the stain this grape juice makes on the white couch, if they had only had our wonderful couch covers it would still lok like this" and voila the couch is unstained - unfortunately they didn't understand that they needed to shoot the couch with the cover & no stain FIRST (you could see the stain through the slipcovers after all). VERY unfortunately (for them at least) it took them 8 tries (on 8 separate occasions with 8 different couches) before they finally wised up and "got it".

slainte,
marisu


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Mark Suszko
Re: Had to share...
on Mar 9, 2007 at 9:16:35 pm

Story I heard. Client comes in with picture of gramps working on his tractor. The camera shot from the near side of the tractor, gramps is on the opposite side, the tractor obscuring 90 percent of his body.

Client wants the tractor painted out so he can see the rest of grampa.

photoshop can do that, right?:-)


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erik1185
Re: Had to share...
on Mar 10, 2007 at 5:57:44 am

LOL, thats a good one.


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Chuck Reti
Re: Had to share...
on Mar 10, 2007 at 6:04:38 am

I recently posted this tale to a similar thread on the AVID-L2, but also seems appropriate here-

In the early days of Quantel, ADO etc. a director/producer on an auto spot got sold on the idea of shooting a car green screen, and then using the newfangled technology to make "3-D moves" of the car on a star field background. I pulled a decent key, and magically made the car (a full side shot), move across the screen. He then asked me to turn the car, a y-axis rotation, as if the car was on a turntable. When I did so, he went ballistic when it disappeared on edge, and he couldn't see the front grille and headlights as it flipped around. It took some bit of explaining as to that we were rotating a two-dimensional picture of a car, in 3-D space with our Magic Box, not creating a 3-D image out of his single side shot, as he had assumed or been led to believe was supposed to happen. He had shot some front. rear and 3/4s but as statics, so they were not going to give him the look, either.
Soon after, the post staff had a meeting with the sales staff to explain the difference between 3-D graphics and movement in 3D space.
--
Chuck Reti
Detroit MI


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Tim Kolb
Re: Had to share...
on Mar 10, 2007 at 9:41:05 am

[marisu fronc] "it took them 8 tries (on 8 separate occasions with 8 different couches)"


LOL!!!! ....oh, my sides hurt.

I am reminded of the line from "Dumb and Dumber"...

"I fell off the jetway again."



TimK,
Director,
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net


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Mark Frazier
Re: Had to share...
on Mar 15, 2007 at 3:34:39 pm

A story to explain the sound of my head pounding on the edit bay wall many moons ago.....

In the very early '90s, I travelled to a Communist-controlled country with a large group of people, which included another news crew and some production people from a University. When we landed, we learned that our news cameras and the University camera would be "secured" for a day or two. We only got our news cameras back as we were leaving the country three weeks later.

For the duration of the trip, we were not allowed to touch any other video cameras, especially the only professional camcorder, a Hi8 setup that was quickly returned to the University shooter, who was the head of their Video Production department. He told us that he would provide us with a dub of all of his raw footage when we got back to the states, and we could produce our hour-long presentation with that. Sounded good enough; he was, after all, their main guy.

Unfortunately, the note he included with the footage he delivered said something to the effect that he was not overly pleased with the outcome of the footage. We could see why. Every single shot included plenty of footage of him positioning the camera, balancing the tripod, pan around and zoom in to get focused, then about a second of decent footage. Cut to him setting up the next shot. Repeat.

Thank goodness I did not have my still camera taken from me while we were there, because the end production was built almost exclusively from those still shots.

And people still wonder why I have such a problem relinquishing control of any aspect of my productions.....


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Tim Kolb
Re: Had to share...
on Mar 15, 2007 at 8:55:19 pm

I've seen some unusual runs of being on the wrong end of the "double punch", but typically you notice it after a point...




TimK,
Director,
Kolb Productions,

Creative Cow Host,
Author/Trainer
http://www.focalpress.com
http://www.classondemand.net


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Mark Suszko
Re: Had to share...
on Mar 15, 2007 at 9:11:43 pm

Yep, I got caught with that one just once, as a very young kid. they handed me a camera I'd never used before, a Hitachi, I think, and sent me out to shoot some 3/4. The in-viewfinder talley for record had a red and a green light. The intuitive thing was green meant "go, you're recording" to me. Turned out in that camera green meant "paused in record mode" Red meant "rolling record".
It taught me to always triple-check for things like seeing the reels turning. This is now another problem, as tape is disappearing, we get fewer and fewer moving mechanical visual cues regarding system operation. I always freak out now if using someone's solid-state audio recorder for that reason: no reels to see moving!

Some guys I know worked freelance shooting a high school basketball tourney for the local station. They had a remote truck with switcher, and betaSP decks. During the half-time break, somebody stopped the deck, but left the REC button pressed and lit for E-E, and with free-run time code set, from a distance the deck looked like it was really recording. Nobody did a close check before the second half began. They didn't record the second half of the show.

Since it wasn't broadcast live, there was not even a home viewer's VHS copy to borrow. The hosts had to verbally describe the second half of the game, from memory, after airing the first half of the show and a apology. imagine being the sales guy selling commercial time for the seconf half of THAT program!

That's the real killer about basketball anyway: nothing matters score wise until the last 2 minutes. :-)


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Pixel Monkey
Re: Had to share...
on Mar 16, 2007 at 2:40:01 pm

[Mark Suszko] "The in-viewfinder talley for record had a red and a green light. The intuitive thing was green meant "go, you're recording" to me. Turned out in that camera green meant "paused in record mode" Red meant "rolling record""

Heh... yeah I did that too. Mine was during a live studio shoot. My first day on the job, we had the usual setup with a field cam mounted on rolling sticks and a massive viewfinder mounted atop it all... with red tally lights on either side of it.

Two stories in the same day actually (talking heads show - I'm supposed to get cutaways):
1) REHERSAL: Tally light is red - on or off. Idiot here thinks that red means it's not being used. So for the whole rehersal I see no light on, so I think I'm the primary camera, slooowly panning to follow the action. Sweating bullets the whole time. Of course when the light finally turns red, I let go of the arms.

2) LIVE: They take my shot, and my editor's brain takes over. Looking right at my viewfinder I mentally drift and start 'watching TV'. Inner voice says, "Hmmm... that guy has a lot of headroom. Wow, now he's got a whole lot of headroom. Wow, somebody on these headsets is really angry... someone must be in trouble... $#!T!"



______
/-o-o-
`(=)`/...Pixel Monkey
`(___)

A picture says 1000 words. Editors give them meaning.



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Chaz Shukat
Re: Had to share...
on Mar 20, 2007 at 4:46:50 pm

[Mark Frazier] "Every single shot included plenty of footage of him positioning the camera, balancing the tripod, pan around and zoom in to get focused, then about a second of decent footage. Cut to him setting up the next shot. Repeat."

Oh my God, don't get me started. If I had a nickel for every cameraman like this I've had to deal with in the edit bay, I'd be frikkin' richer than Gates. Al Gore, forget about global warming, somethings got to be done about this problem. It's an inconvenient truth that 90% of the people that work as cameramen don't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to shooting and getting usable footage, let alone telling a story.
I say it's the fault of all the cheap little camcorders that everybody has. They can work a camera but don't have a clue about shooting. That's because they have no training. Who is out there training cameramen? And sound, obviously they are not thinking much about the sound. I mean, it's like learning how to drive a car. Before you can get a drivers license, you not only have to know how to operate a car, but you also have to know the traffic rules of the road. You have to study and be trained and oh God I'm gonna have a hemmerage! More than death, I wish for these people to have to edit their own footage. But if they edit like they shoot, that shouldn't be a problem either.

Phew!. I'll be alright now.


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