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rap
computer screen for editing
by
on Feb 18, 2007 at 1:14:54 pm


hello everybody

well this is a more "technical" question and not an "art" question
hey guys, I'm looking to by a computer screen for my G5 and while looking for computer screens, I found a 26 LCD with a good price and great contrast 1:3000, and I was wondering, does anyone of you work with an LCD as a computer screen? is it recommended for editing?,what is the difference between LCD TV and LCD computer screen. what should be the properties of he screen for best editing refrence (colors, contrast...)


many thans in advance


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Charlie King
Re: computer screen for editing
on Feb 19, 2007 at 4:43:46 pm

I personally have one CRT screen, one LCD screen, and an NTSC monitor. I love the dual screen editing, but wish I had two wide screen lcd's. The only problem I have is the height settings of windows are not the same on the two different screens. Yu can't really trust the LCD screen for video and color reference. But then I have never really trusted any screen for those elements, that is why they made scopes. I never color correct to a monitor, I always use the scope to color correct then check the monitor to see if I like the results (hoping my monitor is as close as I can get it).

Hope this helps.
Charlie


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mark harvey
Re: computer screen for editing
on Feb 19, 2007 at 6:19:50 pm

I use LCDs (Sony) and am very happy with them. Of course, as Charlie stated, I never adjust to screen, always to scope. I also have an NTSC to view output.
I find LCDs to be kinder on my eyes. At work I have dual Viewsonics. They are very matte, the Sony's at work have the X-Brite which makes the monitor more reflective....I prefer the Sony monitors, I just have to make sure that there is not too much ambient light in the room.

Mark


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Pixel Monkey
Re: computer screen for editing
on Feb 19, 2007 at 6:43:55 pm


I discovered one day while playing a loop of a countdown (yes, I have no life) that LCD's are about 1-2 frames off video-to-audio, and plasmas are between 4 and 6. I'm convinced that using LCDs as primary editing monitors are why so many commercials and programs now-a-days have slipped sync.

Thus for me, CRT's are still the best way to go for computer screens and an NTSC client monitor for output with scope support. Also working in Photoshop looks cruddier on LCDs - especially when viewing at 33% and 66% size.

Remember the colorfully plastic-backed monitors that came with the imac like six years ago? THAT was the best looking editing monitor ever. Bring them back, Apple!

______
/-o-o-
`(=)`/...Pixel Monkey
`(___)

A picture says 1000 words. Editors give them meaning.



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Charlie King
Re: computer screen for editing
on Feb 19, 2007 at 8:20:26 pm

[Pixel Monkey] " I'm convinced that using LCDs as primary editing monitors are why so many commercials and programs now-a-days have slipped sync."

Ever consider the sync loss through frame syncronizers when broadcast is getting the video from sattelite then running through switchers which some have built in frame synchronizers also. Then it goes to the Cable company and is reprocessed. then your home cable box reprocesses it and it then runs through your home LCD HD set?

Charlie



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Pixel Monkey
Re: computer screen for editing
on Feb 20, 2007 at 2:54:09 pm


[Charlie King] "Ever consider the sync loss through frame syncronizers when broadcast"

Oh yes definitely. It's interesting after all that futzing-around that finished products are even watchable. My guess about the lag in LCDs is focused at the occasional commercial that seems more off than the rest -- and is derived from witnessing first-hand a number of boutique edit shops making final editorial decisions based on the plasma they set up for clients.

Along with the warning sticker that's wrapped around the plasma monitor's power cable, there should be one stuck right to the screen when you buy it saying "Don't let clients make million dollar decisions based on this monitor".


______
/-o-o-
`(=)`/...Pixel Monkey
`(___)

A picture says 1000 words. Editors give them meaning.



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rap
Re: computer screen for editing
by
on Feb 20, 2007 at 10:06:17 am

how importante is the contrast ratio?

i just found out that is I bye an LCD monitore 26inch that would coast me much more than buing the Samsung 26inch with 3000:1 contrast raio, so it's cheaper for me to buy the LCD tv rather than the LCD computer monitor.
forget about color correcting which whether LCD or CRT is not gonna be done according to monitor but according to scop



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rap
Re: color correcting using scope
by
on Feb 20, 2007 at 8:51:31 am

hey guys, thanks for all of your replys, so you don't really recommend using a LCD TV as ascreen for my G5
you talked about the scope... and I would hear more about that please, what kind of scoe and how do you use it? i find it very hard to work according to scope. I really wanna learn to do that , I am working on a project now that has to be finilized on my system and so I will have to make sure that the colors are right. so could you please advise me on that?

how about the book "Color Correction for Digital Video: Using Desktop Tools to Perfect Your Image"

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Color-Correction-Digital-Video-Desktop/dp/157820201...

or do you recommend any other book ?

thanks


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mark harvey
Re: color correcting using scope
on Feb 20, 2007 at 11:59:44 am

Rap,

The book looks detailed....I would say go for it. I learned to read scopes in school when studying TV Broadcasting. Adjusting color without scopes is kind of like driving at night with dark sunglasses.... YOU HAVE TO USE SCOPES. With digital TV, compressions and recompressions, legal video limits are more important than ever. When an illegal color gets to the compressor, it can be replaced with green pixels, mosaics etc, etc.
Mark


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Pixel Monkey
Re: color correcting using scope
on Feb 20, 2007 at 2:58:42 pm


Tortally agree with Mark here. Also, it'll be worth your time to go to any local TV station and offer their chief engineer fifty bucks and a free lunch to give you an hour of hands-on with a scope. He/she will have more practical "how-to" for your specific situation than any book.



______
/-o-o-
`(=)`/...Pixel Monkey
`(___)

A picture says 1000 words. Editors give them meaning.



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Charlie King
Re: color correcting using scope
on Feb 20, 2007 at 4:11:15 pm

[rap] "what kind of scoe and how do you use it?"
YOu need to learn both vector and Oscilliscope. First thing to consider is when doing graphics on computer use the 16-235 rule. No blacks under 16,16,16 and no whites above 235,235,235. That will give you a 7.5 IRE black and a 100% white. This constitutes 1 volt of video. To actually read the scopes it is not that difficult once you see it in action, but is hard to explain in a couple sentences. I would recommend Pixel's suggestion that you let a chief engineer of a TV station explain it. Most of them should know how color setup is handled. I learned from an engineer that I will always remember because he explained everything as tho it was a thing with a personality. Made it very interesting. But the main thing to remember is nulling. That is again very ahrd to explain, I just started 6 sentences to attempt and deleted each before I got more than a couple words typed. Good luck, you seem very interested in learning and we could use more like you. too many start out these days with little or no knowledge and feel they don't need any.

Charlie



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debe
Re: color correcting using scope
by
on Feb 20, 2007 at 4:35:10 pm

Add one more to the "find an Engineer" tally.

I learned more in one hour of uninterrupted attention from our Chief Engineer when I was but a wee assistant editor than I ever did from the books I read in school. Without someone there explaining what you are seeing, it just doesn't stick. I've gone looking for good books on the subject to refer others to, and there really isn't one. Nothing I've found so far has surpassed one-on-one learning.

If someone could do a video tutorial, showing good signals and bad signals, in real time and with accompanying video. Explaining it like you were in the room and showing real-world scenarios...now there's a tutorial that would be of incredible value!

debe


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Charlie King
Re: color correcting using scope
on Feb 20, 2007 at 5:07:56 pm

One very important thing that many people don't think of to remember is if a screen looks a little blue, that doesn't always mean there is too much blue so let's turn down the blue. Look at the parade on the scope see if it may just be not enough green. You can use this for all colors. You don't always have to turn down, but then too you don;'t always want to turn up because that can sause problems in the overall video level. That is whay you use all scopes available to you. Learn how they all interact.

Charlie


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mark harvey
Re: color correcting using scope
on Feb 21, 2007 at 11:45:48 am

C'mon Charlie, why would I use a scope and go through all that work when my NLE has an auto-white feature (Please detect sarcasm hehehehe)....

Seriously, I feel lost without my waveform and vector. They are like the rearview in the car, I am constantly glancing at them to check out what is going on.

Back when I was editing tape, I remember using the scopes for the timing of the machines, something that had to be done each and every session...also something that I enjoyed doing. You know the drill, turn of the Procamp, time the VTRs, time the DVE etc. It was fun....

It blows my mind when a new employee comes in and has gone to school, but can't read either a scope or a wiring diagram. For me, those should be taught from day one in TV school....Oh yeah, and don't get me started about troubleshooting skills.

Hope to see you again at NAB this year Charlie. Last year was fun...the tour of your edit suite was really cool.

Mark


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Charlie King
Re: color correcting using scope
on Feb 22, 2007 at 10:32:59 pm

[mark harvey] "It blows my mind when a new employee comes in and has gone to school, but can't read either a scope or a wiring diagram. For me, those should be taught from day one in TV school"

We had a teacher at a Vocational Education High School here that I use to call him for recommendations for graduates to hire. I never asked the University. This guy taught the kids something since he worked in his off season at a TV station to keep informed.
I ust to tell the graduates from Colleges, "Forget what you spent the last four years learning, you don't do it that way in the real world of TV. Funny thing is now I think they do.......

And I hope to see you this year also.

Charlie




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rap
Re: color correcting using scope
by
on Feb 23, 2007 at 10:09:12 am

(sorry that this post appears twice but i just realized that this is the right place for it)

hey guys, I understand how important it is to work with a vectorscope, and I respect all what you have said here, but.... comon, for working on editing a project, not on-lining it, why would I invest in a vectorscope that would coast of $4000 and $11000 ?!!!
I feel unprofessional now to say that, but I was wondering, is having a vectorscope in an editing suite is just like having the computer and the software? is it that essential to offline editing?


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Charlie King
Re: color correcting using scope
on Feb 23, 2007 at 8:17:03 pm

See the other thread for my response.

Charlie


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