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Invisible Editing......what is it?

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mr_gfx
Invisible Editing......what is it?
on Oct 4, 2006 at 11:48:42 pm

I found the term Invisible Editing on the internet. and it talks about cutting on the action, on a matched object in the frame, or similar motion in two different clips.

is that all it is or can someon elaborate on this concept?


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Chaz Shukat
Re: Invisible Editing......what is it?
on Oct 5, 2006 at 2:27:29 am

If you cut on an action, the viewer is paying attention to the action. The action draws attention away from the edit, so you don't notice it. You see it but you don't notice it because your attention is drawn to the action or movement in the frame. It's like a magicians slight of hand, where he does an action to distract you while he does his slight of hand. It's right there to see but you don't notice it because the action distracts you from it. Same principle. Does that help?



Chaz S.


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mr_gfx
Re: Invisible Editing......what is it?
on Oct 5, 2006 at 1:39:06 pm

i think so.

so is this a good example.....

let's say a person's head moves into a shot from frame left and leaves frame right. at about almost the time the head leaves the shot you cut to another clip that has a pan move that goes from left to right. (so the motion is in theory continuing between the two shots.)

is that an invisible cut technique?


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Mark Suszko
Re: Invisible Editing......what is it?
on Oct 5, 2006 at 7:36:27 pm

I think I have a better example. "Rope". Where the idea is the whole movie is one continuous shot, only it couldn't be, because the film reels weren't long enough, so Hitchcock had an actor walk in front of the camera creating a natural wipe. Cutting on the pass, you are tricked into thinking it is still a continuous shot.

Speilberg and his editor used this technique a lot in a particular scene in "Jaws". The scene is Brody, uncomfortably sitting on the beach; the mayor has coerced him into allowing swimming on a beach that almost certainly has a shark nearby. He watches the bathers in the water intently, his gaze flitting from one false alarm to another. Other bathers are walking thru the shot continuously. Each pass is a wipe/cut and as they reveal the new scene, it's a closer and closer shot of Brody. It really ratchets up the anxiety and tension for the arrival of the actual shark.




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epontius
Re: Invisible Editing......what is it?
on Oct 5, 2006 at 11:27:49 pm

This actually brings up a good point. Ever try watching a movie with the sound off? You'll notice a lot more cuts than you would with the sound on. Why? Just as was mentioned, the loud hit (or stab) in the soundtrack or sharp noise of a door slam or other such noise distracts the viewers eyes from percieving the changes in the scene...effectively masking the edit.
That's only one example. There are many, many techniques of hiding edits. Some of the books mentioned in the other thread talk alot on how to mask edits.
In interviews or scenes of dialog, they have the talent position and the framing of the camera done is such a way that the eyes of the subject on the the same level. The eyes are the windows to the soul and the focal point of most viewers. Just about everyone watches the subject's eyes as they move across the screen whether they are conscious of it or not. When shooting interviews it's important to get both eyes in the frame and to have the lighting positioned to give a little glint to the eye (an eyelight). This gives the viewer a reference point as to where the subject's eyes are in the frame.

Erik



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Pixel Monkey
Re: Invisible Editing......what is it?
on Oct 5, 2006 at 8:01:20 pm


Let's say you're cutting 2-camera dialog.

Go to a dinner party and watch other people having conversations. You know that moment when someone (Charlie) is having a conversation with someone else (Lucy) at a dinner party, and Charlie is explaining something that's rather complex, and mid-way through one of their sentences Lucy understands what Charlie is talking about? Lucy displays a visual reaction when this happens - and it is usually slightly exaggerated to show Charlie that the idea has been conveyed.

A few frames before this moment is the perfect time to cut to a reaction shot. It's when the audience gets the idea that's been conveyed and (I guarantee you) mimics the reaction Lucy makes.

This is one of 10,000 examples of invisible editing. It's the inexact science of cutting on the emotion, and is one of the few instincts a great editor can claim - similar to perfect pitch for musicians.



______
/-o-o-
`(=)`/...Pixel Monkey
`(___)

A picture says 1000 words. Editors give them meaning.



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mr_gfx
Re: Invisible Editing......what is it?
on Oct 5, 2006 at 11:29:40 pm

well i'd like to know more about invisible cutting in reference to putting two b-roll shots together.

for example. my coworker told me that this was a jump cut, but i thought i was making an invisible cut......

a plane is landing in the shot going from left to right and then i cut to another clip that has a plane taxiing on the runway (going slow)

i ligned up the shots so that the noses of each shot almost matched up. the second shot nose of the plane was a little farther in the fram in the right than the previous shot.

I personally thought that this cut was ok and made an invisible cut, but he said it was considered a jump cut cause i cut from one plane to another doing the same thing.

who is right??


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Mark Suszko
Re: Invisible Editing......what is it?
on Oct 5, 2006 at 11:35:59 pm

I think your friend is right on this one.


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Chaz Shukat
Re: Invisible Editing......what is it?
on Oct 6, 2006 at 3:25:40 am

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say invisiable edit anymore.
Everyone here is talking about what you could almost call an effect, something that is used on occasion, but not on every single edit. I think that good editing is editing that viewers don't notice because they are focused on the story because the edits are not jarring and don't call attention to themselves. To me, that's invisible editing as much as the "hidden" edits discussed in previous postings. And in answer to you plane example, I would say that it is not an invisible edit or good editing and the first example would be an opportunity to do a hidden edit if you were cutting to another shot with a person walking in the same direction, not a pan in the same direction, unless there was something in the forground like a tree or a pole or a wall edge that was moving across the screen in the same direction.

Chaz S.


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Charlie King
Re: Invisible Editing......what is it?
on Oct 6, 2006 at 4:18:02 pm

[Chaz Shukat] "I think that good editing is editing that viewers don't notice"
That is the real concept. Invisible editing? I personally have never liked that term. No edit is totally invisible, if you are looking for it, or are aware it happened. I prefer the term tranparent editing. Edits should not bring attention to the edit, but should bring the audience into the scene by capturing their attention totally on the scene.
I totally agree the plane description is not a good, invisible, or even transparent edit. The speed alone would be jarring, not to mention background, foreground, etc.

Charlie



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mr_gfx
Re: Invisible Editing......what is it?
on Oct 6, 2006 at 7:06:26 pm

its crazy how certain edits work and some dont huh?

for example. in this video i am making i show a about 4-5 shots back to back of CU of peoples face. Some are talking and others are just listening.

they are each about 2-4 secs long and i cut on the blink of their eyes and it made the sequence edits really invisible. it flowed so naturally.

just a simple attention to detail (by one or two frames) really does make a difference.


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Al J. Marschke
Re: Invisible Editing......what is it?
on Nov 9, 2006 at 2:34:53 am

[mr_gfx] "i cut on the blink of their eyes and it made the sequence edits really invisible."

By blink do you mean when the eyes are closed completely to the next shot with the eyes closed?



Al J. Marschke
BluMars Media
Pittsburgh, PA


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epontius
Re: Invisible Editing......what is it?
on Oct 6, 2006 at 6:33:48 am

For your plane example, I think your co-worker is probably right. The two shots put in close proximity indicate that these actions are occuring in a very short time. We as viewers know that a plane landing going fast suddenly seen a split second later going slow is would be impossible. We need a visual cue between both shots to indicate a passage of time for the edit not to be as jarring. Editors often throw in the all to common cross dissolve inbetween these shots...the dissolve gives us a visual cue that time has passed. There can be other solutions as well. What would happen if you stuck a third shot in between, say a shot of the passengers seated in their seats or the pilots in the cockpit. There is enough visual difference between the plane landing shot and the cockpit/passenger shot and then from that to the taxi shot to avoid a jump cut and imply a passage of time. Another solution perhaps if you didn't have a 3rd shot, would be (if you have the head material) would be to start the taxi shot far earlier in the clip, perhaps showing the runway where the plane is off camera for a dozen frames or so and then rolls into the frame. That extra couple of frames gives the viewer time to notice that this is a different scene and that time has passed...avoiding a jump cut.
Try it and see what works. After editing for a while you start to get a "gut feeling" as you watch your edits. Usually if something feels wrong but you can't quite put your finger on it, make a duplicate of your sequence (so you can get back to where you were if things go wrong) and then start rearranging the order of clips, trimming or extending a few frames from shots, until it feels right. Alot of watching programs/films/etc... is on a subconscious level (or unconscious for some) we as humans are very trained by our ancestral caveman hunter/gather hunter/hunted instincts as to what we think should be correct as we watch.


Erik




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mr_gfx
Re: Invisible Editing......what is it?
on Oct 6, 2006 at 7:02:13 pm

thanks for the advice.

before i read this post i actually moved the clips around and changed the sequnce of them.

i had the plane landing, then a shot of busy cars in front of the airport (which was a nice edit because both shots had fast moving elements) and then to an interior shot of peopel walking fast and then to a plane taking off.

the taxiing shot was just too slow for the sequence.

it worked out better than before.


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epontius
Re: Invisible Editing......what is it?
on Oct 7, 2006 at 1:54:10 am

Glad to hear it. That's another thing you'll learn as you edit more. Things that are music driven, such as fast paced, high energy show openers or music videos, the edit needs to match. Most editing packages have a key that can be pressed to either add cuts, markers, or keyframes while the sequence is playing (and will continue to play as the key is pressed) so that the editor can mark beats in the music as it plays.
Another common technique is to speed up or slow down the shot (time warping). I've created pieces where I speed up the shot 800% or more in order to speed the action up to match the music.

Have fun with it...

Erik



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Pixel Monkey
Re: Invisible Editing......what is it?
on Oct 11, 2006 at 1:28:35 pm


I think "invisible editing" is a technique, not a law to live by on every edit. Get your airplane on the runway however you want to. It's not a dramatic sequence, so who will really care? Just try to keep it consistent with the cutting style of the rest of the film.

Invisible editing seems to be used most with personal interactions - to make you feel you are partaking in the scene, while forgetting there are multiple camera setups. It sounds like you're intending your airplane sequence to be a bit more like a CSI: Miami action sequence, which is completely the opposite of invisibility.


My 2


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Mike Cohen
Re: Invisible Editing......what is it?
on Oct 18, 2006 at 2:13:53 am

just cut your picture how it feels natural - granted plenty of people have made a practice of using intentionally jarring edits, jump cuts, etc, where appropriate, with great effect.

I was taught to edit on the action, and you can cut out action to speed things up as need be, as long as it matches. An advantage of shooting with 2 cameras from 2 angles or a wide and a tight is you can cut between the two and compress time more easily.


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Enzo Tedeschi
Re: Invisible Editing......what is it?
on Nov 9, 2006 at 5:37:08 am

I know this is kind of a old thread, but a great discussion.

Personally I love every technique I have ever seen in editing - used appropriately there is a place for all of them. There are no right or wrong ways to cut - whether it be drama, music, fast, slow etc - just what works.

I am cutting a film at the moment that has shower scene where a depressed woman slowly starts to lose her mind. It's a great performance by the actress, and she slowly goes from relaxed to upset to crying until she unleashes a scream... It worked fine as an "invisible edit" (by invisible I mean the cuts didn't intentionally draw attention to themselves).

I took the scene and cut entire chunks out. I took out the subtlety of the actress' transitions from emotion to emotion, and jump cut between them, and used multiple takes of the scream one after another. The end effect is a crazy scattered sort of feel, but it works better than the original "traditional" cut - the jarring editing gives the viewer a feeling of what she might be feeling... disoriented, uncomfortable... it's more powerful this way.

My two cents... :)



Enzo Tedeschi

____________________________

Editor

http://www.outpostpps.com

Sydney, Australia


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