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Comment my editing...

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Chip Douglas
Comment my editing...
on Sep 13, 2005 at 10:21:33 am

Hi!

I've uploaded my first attemp to make a documentary. Feel free to comment the edit, give advice, good/bad stuff, the flow of the movie etc.

regards, Lars

watch the clip here:
http://www.chipdouglas.dk/test_cutting.wmv



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walter biscardi
Re: Comment my editing...
on Sep 13, 2005 at 2:36:41 pm

I'm getting an error message: The file name, directory name, or volume label syntax is incorrect.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Creative Genius, Biscardi Creative Media
http://www.biscardicreative.com

Now in Production, "The Rough Cut," http://www.theroughcutmovie.com

Now editing "Good Eats" in HD for the Food Network

"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters


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Chip Douglas
Re: Comment my editing...
on Sep 13, 2005 at 6:15:00 pm

Hmm weird, maybe my website was down? Well it works fine now btw its a windows media file.
Try right click the link and "save link as"

Regards, Chip


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Walter Biscardi
Re: Comment my editing...
on Sep 14, 2005 at 11:45:11 am

Nope, doesn't work here and I have Windows Media Player. Still get that temp error message.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Creative Genius, Biscardi Creative Media
http://www.biscardicreative.com

Now in Production, "The Rough Cut," http://www.theroughcutmovie.com

Now editing "Good Eats" in HD for the Food Network

"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters


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grinner
Re: Comment my editing...
on Sep 14, 2005 at 2:21:32 am

Nice chops, man.
I always wondered why Neal Armsatrong got credit for the first man on the moon when there is a camera on sticks outside on the ground rolling when he exits the craft.

Hard to comment more on your editing as I don't know what elements ot time frame you were given. What I just watched flowed nicely though.



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Shane Ross
Re: Comment my editing...
on Sep 14, 2005 at 8:53:51 am

I too cannot see it. I get some AOL Temp in the address bar and a blank page. And I have Windows media Player.

Any chance to get a quicktime version?


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mark harvey
Re: Comment my editing...
on Sep 14, 2005 at 12:31:28 pm

I thought that the piece flowed rather well, although the black between some clips seemed a little lengthy for my taste. Also the first time you go to black is with a hard cut, I would have preferred to see a soft cut (3-4 frame dissolve). I also found the audio mix, towards the end was bothersome....the voice was fighting with music....I couldn't hear the voice at times, but I'm not sure if you wanted feedback on the audio.

All in all I enjoyed it. I am not a doc editor, although I have done feature work in the past. Congrats...

Mark


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AVID_CHUMP
Re: Comment my editing...
on Sep 14, 2005 at 12:59:13 pm

Hey

All in all its very good, facinating subject - was Kubrick really involved?

On the cutting front....

The transitions in and out of black, are nice however unsustainable over a longer period, so as the doc progressed you would have to find a way of breaking free from that style.

Music, its always hard to make the music add something to a doc, and by that i mean for it to be something other than a bed for the narration to sit on. In places your music came in too late and ended too soon, it seemed as though you were toying with the idea of using the music but weren't too sure, and again as Mark said it was fighting the narration when it was used.

The footage you used is great, jeez thats an expensive clearance job $$$ lol, however the clip from Dr Strangelove had a pause before the dialogue began, which when i watched it jarred a little, i think it was because we cut to this scene from the film and waited til he started talking, then mid sentence the narrator started again

Dont take my comments the wrong way, i enjoyed watching it and would want to watch the whole doc, so you achieved the ultimate goal in documentary making - you captured the interest and imagination of the viewer. The rest of my comments are purely my opinion.

Well done :)


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Charlie King
Re: Comment my editing...
on Sep 14, 2005 at 3:28:46 pm

I found it to flow nicely. As you will find, no two editors will totally agree with just about anything, that is what makes us unique and creative in our own way. I didn't find the music too hot at the end, I felt it built nicely for dramatic impact, I personally would have mixed the music hotter earlier and in that way it would not have felt as tho you were not sure about the music. I prefer hotter mixes so as to be bold about the music eing a part of the feel, instead of just being a backgroud bed. I felt the cut in Dr. Srangelove was very dramatic as you could see his thoughts before he started to talk.

As I said you are who you are, I am me, and they are who they are. None of us will ever agree totally on any production. Be yourself, do what you feel, make it memorable, even if someone does't agree with you, make them want to see more. Never take criticism as gospel.
If we were all the sae and thought the same and did everything the same, life would be soooooooo boring.

Charlie


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AVID_CHUMP
Re: Comment my editing...
on Sep 14, 2005 at 3:57:10 pm

Amen to that Charlie !

Isn't editing great because of that.


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Steven L. Gotz
Re: Comment my editing...
on Sep 19, 2005 at 4:17:43 pm

I realize it is only the theory of complete idiots, jealous that their country has not yet achieved the goal, but the presentation made me physically ill, irritated and finally, just plain angry.

Therefore, the cutting must have been pretty good because it did not interfere with the growing irritation throughout the piece.

Nice job. But why use your talents for such drivel?

Steven
Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5.1 / After Effects 6.5 Pro http://www.stevengotz.com
Learning Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 http://www.lynda.com
Contributing Writer, PeachPit Press, Visual QuickPro Guide, Premiere Pro 1.5


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Chip Douglas
Re: Comment my editing...
on Sep 19, 2005 at 4:29:21 pm

Before anyone get really angry and do something stupid I quess i have to explain myself :-)

I'm making my final exam as a multimedia integrator (great word huh)
My goal is to integrate as many medias as possible into one and therefore i choose a dvd-production from scratch. So I needed a good story and conspiracy theories has always been good material, true or false.

So i found some stories on the internet and made this dvd.

My personal view of this video is that it is fiction and nothing more for the matter I could
make a dvd about my brother but he ain't that great a story. Hope this helps clearing thigs up a bit :-)

Regards, Chip


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Charlie King
Re: Comment my editing...
on Sep 19, 2005 at 6:14:15 pm

[Chip Douglas] "I could
make a dvd about my brother but he ain't that great a story."


If it is Ernie, it might be a very good story.

I hope someone out there gets this. Please tell me I;m not the only one.

Charlie


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Mark Frazier
Re: Comment my editing...
on Sep 19, 2005 at 8:31:40 pm

Charlie,

Anyone with a good memory (or an appreciation for the "TV Land" channel) will get it.

I'm nominating you for the "Obscure Reference Du Jour" award. Keep up the good work!

Mark


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Dean
Re: Comment my editing...
by
on Sep 23, 2005 at 4:45:20 am

Like most of the others, I found the visuals in the piece to flow pretty well. The only thing that bothered me about it was the narrator. I found his voice and delivery to be very "newsy". This is the kind of subject - not straight news, but an interpretation of information from the filmmaker's point of view - that would really benefit greatly from the kind of delivery that an actor brings. As I watched this I imagined various voices doing the material - not huge stars, but accomplished actors like James Cromwell, John Heard, Tom Skerrit. Obviously, you're not going to get anyone like that, but even someone from your local civic theatre group can command attention and better complement your visuals for this material. My .02.

As an academic project, you did an excellent job. You should be proud.


Dean



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Ali Grossman
Re: Comment my editing...
on Sep 30, 2005 at 6:04:00 pm

Nice work! I was immediately drawn into the story and images. Truly believable! As a documentary maker, I did not even notice your edits (deepest compliment). I am deeply disturbed over the power of this medium! Congratulations on a job well done.



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Paul Peltekian
Re: Comment my editing...
on Sep 30, 2005 at 8:53:00 pm

Great. I love consiracy theories. Post the rest of the video when it's complete. (unless it is...) Would love to see more.

Nice Work.

-Paul Peltekian


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Jemima Harrison
Re: Comment my editing...
on Sep 30, 2005 at 10:58:04 pm

I think the pictures work well but, narratively, it's wierd to present it as a "done deal" conspiracy-wise. In reality, you'd need to present it as a question, not a fact.

It also highlights the big difference between US and UK documentaries. As a UK film-maker, I could never use such wall-to-wall commentary and pictures as wallpaper. This side of the pond, we use much less narration and instead make the pictures - and sync interview - do the job where possible. We use much less "signposting" and try not to tell the audience what they should be thinking, but rather trust them to get the message from images and testimony.

Jemima





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Enzo Tedeschi
Re: Comment my editing...
on Sep 30, 2005 at 11:38:37 pm

Nice work!

Just addressing some of the comments made by others:

Music: It didn't bother me at all. After reading the comments while downloading (before viewing) I was expecting to not even be able to hear the voice! Music was fine in my opinion, did'nt even nreally notice it (which means it didn't jar..)

Cuts: I agree that at one point especially, the dip to black was a little long. Personally I think that most of the other dips could be made straight cuts, and it would probably add, rather than detract. I love a good conspiracy theory (moon landing one of my personal favourites), and one of the things I like about conspiracy docos is the feel that I am being presented with a wealth of info. By cutting instead of dipping to black, it would add a bit of pace, therefore the impression of more info being presented (even though it's not!).

As also mentioned, opinions are like backsides: everybody's got one, and this is just mine - well done I think it's a good piece.

Although not a documentary, Oliver Stone's JFK is a masterful bit of cutting - very good at presenting or alluding to information through the visuals that isn't said at all in dialogue. And very pacey. It holds up for me viewing after viewing (no medan feat for a three hour marathon!) It's a very clever pice of filmmaking, and also combines a lot of different media (archival footage, recreations, etc) very convincingly, whether you agree with what's being said or not.

e.


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Chip Douglas
Re: Comment my editing...
on Oct 1, 2005 at 8:01:12 am

Thanks for all the answers! I'll soon as possible post my video just have to remove my traces on it in terms of credits coz I don't have any copyrights to the materiale beeing used. Well right now I'm preapring my speech for my exam to defend my work and hopefully on wedensday i'll be a happy man with an A+ ...and who cares about grades :-) well at least my pride is on the line.

-Chip



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antelope
Re: Comment my editing...
on Oct 1, 2005 at 9:45:38 pm

I'm a complete newcomer to film and editing and am tring to learn. I watched this clip with the audio settings switched to off on my PC so no sound, just image. This way, it didn't work. The gaps were to long and at one point, the visual dialogue appeared to go backward....they landed on the moon and then launched. Nothing else made much sense and I had no idea what the message was.

But then I replayed with the audio. And the [learner] conclusion that I reached is how much the visual message can depend upon the dialogue! This was an entirley different experience as my mind was fully occupied and didn't notice the flaws, actual or not, in the film. Isn't this an unfortunate implication for film editors? That their efforts should be so very subject to the audio track?

David


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Enzo Tedeschi
Re: Comment my editing...
on Oct 2, 2005 at 12:27:21 am

Hello again, David!

It's always a really good way to see how something is communicating an idea by watching it mute. This works for drama, but I don't think it will always apply to documentary - especially something built entirely out of archival material.

As for soundtrack being an editor's curse - most definitely not!! You can tell you've come from a stills background! :) Kidding, kidding...!!

The soundtrack is yet another extension of the toolset you have available to you when you are cutting. The right piece of music, or the right inflection in someone's voice can lift a good scene into a great scene. Sadly something that is often overlooked, especially with music - it has often become simply filler for when a scene feels empty, rather than a tool to enhance a scene.

IMHO, the same way a director should be listening to input from his or her heads of department when shooting, an editor should be paying close attention to what is happening in the soundtrack. Not just adding what they think should be there, but letting the sound that IS there speak to them just as much as the images.

I recently attended a Q & A with Director / Editor / Composer John Ottman, where he lamented the poor use of score in a lot of flims today. His was a fascinating viewpoint, being both the editor AND composer on a lot of his films. Possibly the standout moment in his dual career is "The Usual Suspects".

I think this chat might need to spill over into an new thread....

e.


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Enzo Tedeschi
Re: Comment my editing...
on Oct 2, 2005 at 12:30:40 am

http://forums.creativecow.net/cgi-bin/new_read_post.cgi?forumid=27&postid=8...

Perfect example of what can be achieved by omitting the right things and using the right music. Hilarious!

e.


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antelope
Re: Comment my editing...
on Oct 2, 2005 at 6:23:12 pm

One of the problems with this area seems to be that it's hard now not to listen to a piece of music and keep imagining how it could be applied to some scene or other! I see that music is a fundamental part of the mix. I imagine that it plays a greater part in the generation od atmosphere and message than possibly any part of the overall mix. It must be hard to know how to blend one into the other though. And unless the music is custom written for the film, in which case I guess the visual comes first and the music is written to suite. But if it's the other way round, and one doesn't have the resources available to write and create music, presumably the editor's skill comes into it's own stretching and compressing the visual to fit the rhythm and feel of the music...this is what I'll have to do if I go for this climate change clip competition. I suppose this is what I was getting at....where the visual is subject to the music. Is this a problem?


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antelope
Re: Comment my editing...
on Oct 2, 2005 at 6:23:40 pm

sorry, you're right, this should be a new thread...


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antelope
Re: Comment my editing...
on Oct 2, 2005 at 6:14:49 pm

Hi Jemima

Good to see a brit posting here...I'm investigating entering the intriguing, and obviously complex, world of film editing as part of a career/liestyle change and and wondered if you hcould point me to any resources similar to creativecow but which caters for us in the UK.

Any pointers would be appreciated.
Tks
David


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Enzo Tedeschi
Re: Comment my editing...
on Oct 2, 2005 at 11:44:19 pm

David,

I don't think music poses a problem - I find it a really interesting challenge. I cut for a travel show here in Australia, and we are always using commercial music. The challenge is to find a piece that works for message / mood, and the cutting to suit. Don't forget that when you've got a piece of music into the NLE, you can cut it like you cut images. I am forever trimming bits out of the middle of music to make it suit the piece I am cutting. At the end of the process, it's almost like a score. Recently I cut a story that was about 5 and a half minutes, and had 7 different pieces of music through it!

e.


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AVID_CHUMP
Re: Comment my editing...
on Oct 16, 2005 at 1:40:35 pm

Hey David,

I too am in the UK, and i haven't seen much on the net to support UK editors, except for the COW, but that is a truely global cow-munity.

There certainly aint anything in Scotland !!


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antelope
Re: Comment my editing...
on Oct 16, 2005 at 1:49:01 pm

Hi

Well I'm just starting out on my new, third 'career' in editing and so far have found a small local group of film makers in a local community centre and nothing else. I'm in the Midlands. Nothing online either. Theres a job in TV related thing at http://www.tvfreelancers.org.uk/standard.htm but that appears to be it. Pretty damn sad really. Makes it very hard to get started, especially as its an industry that depends so much on networking. If I find anything else I'll post it.
Cheers


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AVID_CHUMP
Re: Comment my editing...
on Oct 16, 2005 at 1:59:52 pm

Hey

Yeah its not great.

Im staff editor with a corporate prod house.

The broadcast market here is bad to break into. but if your midlands, you may be wise to look for a facilities house and get in as editors assist. Its a good way to make contacts and a CV.

Good luck !


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