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Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology

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colourblind
Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 4, 2005 at 11:31:30 am



One question, out of the many that will eventually make me burst into tears, grab and AK47 and massacre an entire programming and development team.

How in the name of al Gods can one create freakin' sublicps out of a bigger clip in Premiere? Is it such a hi-tech feature that the Adobe buys missed it? I just want to be able to create (Avid like) subclips instead of browsing hours through footage.
If any of you knows a way to do that please tell me. Until now everybody I know that has used Pain in the neck Pro 1.5 told me subclips can't be don.


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Steven L. Gotz
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 4, 2005 at 4:22:06 pm

They are actually quite easy, and you might have gotten a quicker response on the Premiere Pro forum. It is time to expand the number of people you know, since the ones you already know, do not know everything you want to know.

Place the long clip in the source window, then set the in/out markers, and grab the middle of the picture and drag it to the Project Window. Then immediately rename the new clip in the Project Window, since it will have the same name as the original. Change the in/out settings and drag the next section to the Project Window and rename. Keep doing this as often as necessary to get all of the smaller clips into the Project Window and renamed using descriptive names.

The problem is that it references the original clip, and is not limited to just the in/out settings. But they can easily be used as subclips. Just be aware that they are not locked down to just the area you selected. They can easily be expanded, but this should not cause a problem once you know the deal.

If you really want to delete the original clip, and make true subclips, use the Project Manager to trim the project. That will create all new clips, and you can delete the original. Thos new clips should be just the selection plus the designated handles.

Steven
Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 / After Effects 6.5 Pro http://www.stevengotz.com
Learning Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 http://www.lynda.com
Contributing Writer, PeachPit Press, Visual QuickPro Guide, Premiere Pro 1.5


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Mike Cohen
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 5, 2005 at 1:44:05 am

But batch digitizing from the source with the subclips - will that work?


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Steven L. Gotz
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 5, 2005 at 4:26:21 am

You mean after it has been trimmed? Yes, it works. The new clips have the timecode needed to recapture.

Steven
Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 / After Effects 6.5 Pro http://www.stevengotz.com
Learning Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 http://www.lynda.com
Contributing Writer, PeachPit Press, Visual QuickPro Guide, Premiere Pro 1.5


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colourblind
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 5, 2005 at 8:31:58 am


Thanks Steven.

As a note, I did visit the Premiere forums and I did read your post regarding the subclips issue but at first it didn't work. After reading your post on this forum I finally managed to do it. However, you must admit the process is pretty time consumming and akward, but well, it works. As for my iritated state that was due to the numerous glitches in Premiere's fetures. I do not have too much Premiere experience but for now I do find trimming extremelly impracticable, collor correction is ok, but has a ludicrous glitch that in my opinion should trigger the firing of many people (more on that latter). Don't get me wrong I'm a huge Adobe fan but, Premiere in my opinion is a tiny (yet annoyng crack) in their shiny armor.


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Tim Kolb
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 5, 2005 at 2:00:59 pm

I'm curious as to what the glitch in the color corrector is...

I find it interesting when people have very little experience with something, they make sweeping evaluations...but the main complaint usually comes out as "Product X is completely defective because Product Y does this and this and this and Product X does it differently..."

I've edited with Producers in the room who are used to editing with Avid editors and they make the comment that PPro is "...so much faster."

Is PPro faster? Not really...Avid isn't faster either. The editor and their experience and comfort with the software is the key.

Making subclips in PPro makes workflow sense when you understand what the operating principles of the software are...

I'm not sure if you refer to trimming source slips or edit points when you reference it...I find it much quicker to use the N/B and Y/U keys to key in the ripple/roll or slip/slide tools and trim edit points right on the timeline with the quad view that comes up in the overlay.

As adults, we all adapt to new things slower than we did when we were younger...this doesn't mean that all changes are bad. I find the use of the word "Neanderthal" in your subject line sort of interesting...this post in the PPro forum without that word in the subject line would have garnered you some help I would think. Even with it, there are certainly more "in the know" Premiere Pro users there.

I understand the desire to vent, but ultimately getting assistance fixes your problem...




TimK,

Kolb Syverson Communications,
Creative Cow Host,
2004-2005 NAB Post Production Conference
Premiere Pro Technical Chair,
Author, "The Easy Guide to Premiere Pro" http://www.focalpress.com
"Premiere Pro Fast Track DVD Series" http://www.classondemand.net


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Bob Bonniol
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 5, 2005 at 3:32:08 pm

Yup, I am in complete agreement with Tim. Even though we are an FCP shop, primarily, we still have PPro installed on our windows boxes for quick or incidental cutting, and we find it to be pretty much equal to FCP (or Avid, which we have as well). The days of Premiere being a kludgy tool (back in the 5.x days) are over. PPro is powerful, elegant, intuitive, (pile on your favorite NLE adjective here). There are things about it that puzzle me (I work on the FCP setups), but I watch people who KNOW the program fly on it.

So my .02 ? Take the time to work through the tutorials, maybe invest in some training tapes or other training books, and figure out whether the program is REALLY not doing what you need it to do, or whether you just haven't figured it out yet. If PPro, FCP, Avid, Liquid, et al all looked and behaved exactly alike, there'd be very little reason for them to exist. Different workflows yield different strengths.

Good luck, and crack that manual open friend !

Best,
Bob Bonniol

MODE Studios
http://www.modestudios.com
Contributing Editor, Entertainment Design Magazine
Art of the Edit Forum Leader
Live & Stage Event Forum Leader
HD Forum Leader


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mick
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
by
on Jul 5, 2005 at 4:01:00 pm

More Hubris,

I am an ex-avid editor who has been skulking around and getting the likes of velocity, fcp and now premiere pro to do my bidding.

Every time i sit down at a new machine I try to make it work like the old one. And every time I curse it for it's inadequacy and ineptitude when it won


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colourblind
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 5, 2005 at 3:35:10 pm



Okay okay. No reason to take it so personal. It's just that I sometimes use a more...say colorful scheme when posting. :P

I do admit that ussually, it's not the software that matters and that this is also a problem of who to what software is used.
Latellyt I had to handle two HD projects using Premiere. I kept saying ot myself that I'll be writting a detailed post about these two projects and working with Premiere but I didn't have the time to. Bottom line, with absolutelly no intent of hurting anybody's feelings, Premiere had a crush for crashes so to speak. As I said, I will try to bring some further details, not only to avoid acuses but also to exchange some oppinions. I strongly believe that the first and most important thing is to get the job done, as efficient and ergonomic as possible.

About what I consider a glitch in the Color Corrector...

There is a switch called SPLIT SCREEN PREVIEW or something. What really amused me was the fact that, when hitting render, Premiere graciously renders just half of the image. Neat. Now, if I hit render in most of the cases I want a final render, not a split screen one. Second. When rendering, Premiere also has a fancy for rendering not only SPLIT SCREEN but it also renders the small triangles that mark the splitter line.


"Making subclips in PPro makes workflow sense when you understand what the operating principles of the software are..."

Not really. It's about which software's workflow is best. Also, different editors have different workflows much like the projects themselves. So, imposing a software based workflow is a bit limitating. It's true each software has it's own defining features, but to get hampered by a poor/primitive (just to justiy the Neanderthal term) Media Mangement scheme it's a totally different story.
Furthermore, I agree my knowledge of Premiere is quite limited, but, one of the many cons I have is that, Premiere also seems to force a mouse based workflow on the users. Yes, keyboard is customizable and I noticed the Avid preset :p but still every Premiere editor's I have seen best friend was the mouse. Ofcourse, Steven may be biased to remind me again that the number of Premiere editors I know can be hardly considered a statistic but then again... why not.
Anyway, I do not intend to throw rotten tomatoes at anyone. It's just that, until now, PPro has given me tons of headaches although I was interested in exploring it since I met persons who hailed this new version and talked so much about the new and improved Premiere.
I believe, that as long as this topic remains within tolerable limits we could get something out of eachoter.


Graciously yours,
Colourblind


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Bob Bonniol
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 5, 2005 at 4:41:13 pm

Colourblind, I understand right where you're at on this... and no worries. With the Forum Leaders, we've all been around for years worth of hot flaming threads, so we've all got pretty thick skins when it comes to frustrated venting.

I do know this about PPro: There are hardware configs that seem to work really well, and there are some that don't. Actually I guess thats more of an OS/Platform thing, because it's certainly true of Avid as well. So some of your issues (in the crashing sense) may have to do with this. I'd absolutley check in on the PPro forum on that, those folks will have hardware/software conflict experience.

Workflow is such an investment. It took me a couple of years until I felt as confortable and speedy on FCP as I did on Avid. And along the way I certainly hit my head against the wall in frustration alot. But now, I can't imagine going back or using anything else (until something better comes along I guess). It just took me sniffing my way into every little corner of FCP until I was back to being an edit jedi on the platform. The end message: Keep on keeping on...

Best,
Bob

MODE Studios
http://www.modestudios.com
Contributing Editor, Entertainment Design Magazine
Art of the Edit Forum Leader
Live & Stage Event Forum Leader
HD Forum Leader


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Mike Cohen
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 5, 2005 at 7:12:16 pm

As for workflow, I agree, time is key.
I set the keyboard commands in PPro to emulate the Media 100i as much as possible, so for doing my first pass on an edit, I can work as fast as in M100i, for the most part. I consider Premiere Pro to be my Media 100i plus all the features I always wished it had. The color correction is fantastic. The ease of doing motion and other keyframed effects is great.
So the lack of batch digitizing without first making subclips is a drag compared with the other systems out there, but I think a decent tradeoff considering the features available.
If one feels that a software program "doesn't do what xyz software does" then use xyz software!

Good luck to the original poster.

Mike


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Tim Kolb
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 5, 2005 at 8:53:44 pm

[Mike Cohen] "So the lack of batch digitizing without first making subclips is a drag compared with the other systems out there, but I think a decent tradeoff considering the features available.
If one feels that a software program "doesn't do what xyz software does" then use xyz software!"


You can get a "used material only " batch digitize by having a project trimmed in the Project Manager. You don't need to make subclips. The Project Manager will trim all the media with the handles you specify and create a new project with the new media. Simply batch from the trimmed project at that point. Trimming a project can take anywhere from 10-30 minutes in my experience with large projects, but compared to making all those subclips...




TimK,

Kolb Syverson Communications,
Creative Cow Host,
2004-2005 NAB Post Production Conference
Premiere Pro Technical Chair,
Author, "The Easy Guide to Premiere Pro" http://www.focalpress.com
"Premiere Pro Fast Track DVD Series" http://www.classondemand.net


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Tim Kolb
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 5, 2005 at 7:06:16 pm

[colourblind] "There is a switch called SPLIT SCREEN PREVIEW or something. What really amused me was the fact that, when hitting render, Premiere graciously renders just half of the image. Neat. Now, if I hit render in most of the cases I want a final render, not a split screen one. Second. When rendering, Premiere also has a fancy for rendering not only SPLIT SCREEN but it also renders the small triangles that mark the splitter line."


LMAO...that would be a glitch wouldn't it? I guess I never left the corrector with the split screen turned on so I never ran into it...

As far as workflow goes...I personally find it interesting that Premiere Pro can be as keyboard-based as you want...but Avid can't really utilize a mouse if you would like to...

:-)

If you go through and learn the keyboard commands, I suspect you'd be shocked at how little you need the mouse...when somone first sits down in front of an Avid, how would they know where the function keys are without a map or the manual?

Why do we make an Avid user responsible to get training and take classes to learn how to operate the machine to be considered a proficient editor, but somehow Premiere Pro is supposed to deliver all that functionality yet somehow Premiere Pro is defective because a user can't simply sit down and somehow instinctively operate it without ever cracking a manual?

That's just absurd...

Go over and crank about the Avid on the Cow's Avid forum with a "this software doesn't work the way I want it to so it stinks" sort of issue and see what sort of response you get...

(BTW...on media management, it's better than it's ever been, but it's still not Avid...but then on media management, nothing is...it continues to improve.)






TimK,

Kolb Syverson Communications,
Creative Cow Host,
2004-2005 NAB Post Production Conference
Premiere Pro Technical Chair,
Author, "The Easy Guide to Premiere Pro" http://www.focalpress.com
"Premiere Pro Fast Track DVD Series" http://www.classondemand.net


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Oliver Peters
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 6, 2005 at 1:38:55 pm

[Tim Kolb] "Why do we make an Avid user responsible to get training and take classes to learn how to operate the machine to be considered a proficient editor, but somehow Premiere Pro is supposed to deliver all that functionality yet somehow Premiere Pro is defective because a user can't simply sit down and somehow instinctively operate it without ever cracking a manual?"

Tim,

I think that's the nature of all NLEs these days. It's the downside of cheap software. You'll see the same sort of issues with Avid editors who first started using Avid with Xpress DV and Xpress Pro. People would rather vent on forums than invest the time to actually read the manuals. My advice to many people if they don't want to learn from the books and don't want to pay for "official" training is to hire an experienced freelancer at his or her dayrate for 1-3 days and have them teach you the ins and outs of the system. This will go a long way to solving the learning curve issues.

Sincerely,
Oliver

Oliver Peters
Post-Production & Interactive Media
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Steven L. Gotz
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 6, 2005 at 3:44:53 pm

That hits the nail on the head. People use a mouse until they get tired of using a mouse and learn the shortcuts. One advantage of Premiere Pro is that you can take your time learning the shortcuts if you wish. Or, set them all to your liking right away.

Remember when you first got tired of using the mouse for Copy and Paste, and finally got around to memorizing Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V? Slowly but surely we learn our way around.

Except perhaps in AE where we learn from the great Brian Maffitt who mercilessly instills the shortcuts into our memory banks. (No joke, he is a tough task master, but there is none better.)


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Steven L. Gotz
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 6, 2005 at 3:54:59 pm

Get to know more Premiere Pro users here, and in other forums. Check out my web site, and maybe get a copy of this book for some interesting information.

http://www.creativecow.net/show.php?forumid=1&page=/dairy_store/amazon/book...

We are a friendly bunch. Tim Kolb and I both have DVDs for sale - more for beginners than video experts, but if you like Jacob's book, you may want to buy his more expensive training.

Steven
Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 / After Effects 6.5 Pro http://www.stevengotz.com
Learning Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 http://www.lynda.com
Contributing Writer, PeachPit Press, Visual QuickPro Guide, Premiere Pro 1.5


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colourblind
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 7, 2005 at 10:44:28 am



Ok. This topic was not about venting of anything of the sort. At one particular moment I just got frustrated by the lack of some features in Premiere & other PPro related issues.

"LMAO...that would be a glitch wouldn't it? I guess I never left the corrector with the split screen turned on so I never ran into it...
"

You may want to try a subtler form of irony. :P

Now, perhaps I had misinterpreted the word "preview" as english is not my mother tongue but as far as I know this is what "preview" means:


An advance showing, as of a movie or art exhibition, to which a selected audience is invited before public presentation begins.
An advance viewing or exhibition, especially the presentation of several scenes advertising a forthcoming movie; a trailer.
An introductory or preliminary message, sample, or overview; a foretaste.


Seriously now. Since the switch is called split screen PREVIEW, I would certainly not expect Premiere to render half a screen, but to nicely make a split screen preview and then when I hit RETURN render the hole damned frame. Who needs a half corrected frame? I certainly wouldn't. So, as far as I am concerned that can be at least labeled as a terminology / interface glitch. I recently had to perform some color corrections for a music video. I don't know how many clips there were but "a lot of them" is a good estimate. Now, go figure, it actually happened to me to forget the SPLIT SCREEN PREVIEW option ON for some of them. I detected my error in time, and then again I find this render half a frame surprise to be moronic to say the least.

" People would rather vent on forums than invest the time to actually read the manuals."

Crashes, imense rendering times & such have absolutelly nothing to do with reading manuals and are pretty good reasons to "vent on forums" as you like to say.


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Tim Kolb
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 7, 2005 at 1:10:42 pm

[colourblind] "Seriously now. Since the switch is called split screen PREVIEW, I would certainly not expect Premiere to render half a screen, but to nicely make a split screen preview and then when I hit RETURN render the hole damned frame. Who needs a half corrected frame? I certainly wouldn't. So, as far as I am concerned that can be at least labeled as a terminology / interface glitch. "

Perhaps my response was misinterpreted. I was agreeing with you. That would be a pretty obvious bug. In fact my sense of "irony" was to the obvious nature of the bug...

I wasn't implying that you weren't doing it right. I guess I typically want to preview the entire frame before I leave the color corrector, so I guess that's why I've never run into this... I haven't had a chance to see If I can reproduce this bug myself yet.


[colourblind] "
" People would rather vent on forums than invest the time to actually read the manuals."

Crashes, imense rendering times & such have absolutelly nothing to do with reading manuals and are pretty good reasons to "vent on forums" as you like to say."


Your post was regarding making subclips and a color corrector problem. There was no mention of crashes. PPro runs very, very solid on most systems...not that that's much consolation when it is crashing...

There may be some conflict with something on your system that would cause crashes, but PPro has almost no(the media encoder under certain conditions would be an exception to this...) bugs in it's code that will cause a crash that I know of and I'm using it for DV, SD, HDV, HD...lots of layers, lots of effects...I run it on P4 laptops (1.7/512, 3.2/2 Gig) and several desktops (P4 3.06/1 Gig, 3.0/512, Dual Opteron 252s/2 Gig) etc. So it's not like I'm coasting with it.

I suppose that render times are relative. Dependent on processor power and what you're used to... Very few systems that have significantly more real-time capabilities AND are as feature-rich as Premiere Pro are priced comparably so I guess there are bound to be differences on several levels.

I edit with Aspect HD from CineForm with 1440x1080 8 bit HD files on my laptop without any deal-breaker render breaks...and the "preview" in unrendered areas is actually watchable for flow while I'm actually cutting in most cases.

In native DV mode, there can be render delays and some effects like Magic Bullet choke the preview capability and do take a long time to render...so I guess anecdotally, yes some effects take some time to render.

Out of curiousity, what exactly crashes PPro for you?...the Media Encoder?






TimK,

Kolb Syverson Communications,
Creative Cow Host,
2004-2005 NAB Post Production Conference
Premiere Pro Technical Chair,
Author, "The Easy Guide to Premiere Pro" http://www.focalpress.com
"Premiere Pro Fast Track DVD Series" http://www.classondemand.net


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colourblind
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 7, 2005 at 1:40:10 pm

"I wasn't implying that you weren't doing it right. I guess I typically want to preview the entire frame before I leave the color corrector, so I guess that's why I've never run into this... I haven't had a chance to see If I can reproduce this bug myself yet."

Ok. Sorry. It looks like I'm a bit too trigger happy. :)

I don't know if it can be called a bug, but rather a well, design flaw.

"Out of curiousity, what exactly crashes PPro for you?...the Media Encoder?"

Ok. So here's the thing.
FOr SD projects I use exclusivelly Avid Xpress Pro. However, the guys here wanted badly to have and HD suite up and running so in march they assembled the dual Opteron 4gb's of RAM, 3TB Raid10 Array, GeForce Fx6800.
We also have a BlackMagic Design HD pro card hooked up to a 24 inch Philips monitor. The hard drives ussually run at a mean speed of 300 - 400 mb/second with a theoretical speed of 1gb/s.

I don't have the time now to give all the details but I will try to name a few things. Our first HD project was a music video originated on a
Sony 750. First problem (which it seems was not Premiere based) was that once we had less that 30% free space on the HD drive, the drives would slow down and the immediate result was that I got lost frames. As a note, I captured the footage throug the HD SDI in on the BM card, from a Sony Cinealta. (We had a Sony HDW500 for demo purposes but now it's gone *SIGH*). That's why with HD projects I'm forced to capture whole tapes and I cannot select material in order to avoid wearing the Cinealta's head.
So anyway. The first thing I did was that I emptied the drives, and instead of capturing in 10 bit I captured in 8 bit just to be on the safe side. Capturing worked fine and playback also. Now I will list the things that worked and those that didn't and related issues.

1. Loading clips into monitor sometimes takes about 10 seconds.
2. For some reason, after an hour of two of editing, Premiere would not playback (timeline or footage in the monitor). This is solved by saving the project and restarting Premiere. Sometimes it becomse annoying as this "playback issue" can repeat several times in a row with some pauses.
3. Instant crashes to desktop. Rare, but happened a few times.
4. Color correction is doable but totally impractical. Numerous (no reason whatsoever) crashes when applying the color corrector filter to individual clips, modifying, slow renders and slow response. etc. etc.
5. After a while, when the project grows bigger and bigger, loading times for the project rocketed to 5 mins even 15 mins in one instance. Another note. I ussually like to keep my projects well organized so chaotic placement of media & such is out of the question.
5a. Working with the actual project also became a pain in the neck as scrubing through the timeline became really slow.
6. Long render times for color corrected clips.
7. Odd transition behavior. For instance, no matter how long I made a transition it rendered as a sudden pass from black to the incoming footage. Vewy confusing if you ask me.

What went well.

1. With all issues, the final project was delivered. Downconversion to Beta SP through the BM card went smooth. No probs.
2. One of the features I like most in PPro is the ability to zoom in not only in the timeline but also in the left monitor where I load my footage.
3. Track monitoring is a bit akward as opposed to Avid but sometimes the classical "adobe eye icon" thingie proved to be more flexible.
4. Palettes have their ups and downs. Intergaface management still seems to limitated in Premiere.

I will try to bring into discussion more specific issues, with more details.

Thanks
CB



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Tim Kolb
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 7, 2005 at 11:47:47 pm

colourblind:

The issues you are mentioning seem like they might be connected to those really long clips you captured from HDcam...did you capture uncompressed?

When the project takes so long to load, are the drives accessing the whole time? Also when you're waiting to see the clip in the source window? If so, it's possible the drives are grunting to queue that large clip...

If you create a shorter project, does the speed issue go away?

The Black Magic guys might have some ideas on what might cause behavior like this (not that it IS the Black Magic card...just that they've probably seen a lot of different systems.)

The transition behavior is something I've not seen on any of our systems so I don't have any immediate thoughts on that one...



TimK,

Kolb Syverson Communications,
Creative Cow Host,
2004-2005 NAB Post Production Conference
Premiere Pro Technical Chair,
Author, "The Easy Guide to Premiere Pro" http://www.focalpress.com
"Premiere Pro Fast Track DVD Series" http://www.classondemand.net


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Oliver Peters
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 8, 2005 at 12:30:56 am

[Tim Kolb] "The issues you are mentioning seem like they might be connected to those really long clips you captured from HDcam...did you capture uncompressed?"

Tim,

I would add that working with a 1 Beyond workstation equipped with Premiere Pro and the Bluefish card and uncompressed HD media, there was no such lag in performance. Clips were a standard length, no longer than a couple of minutes. I have also edited on an Avid DS 6.0 (pre-Nitris) on an IBM Intellistation and with all the clips loaded (uncompressed HD) to online a 1-hour show, system performance was slow. I think all these systems have some problems when huge amounts of data have to be pulled off of the drives.

Sincerely,
Oliver

Oliver Peters
Post-Production & Interactive Media
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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colourblind
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 9, 2005 at 5:38:06 pm

HDcam...did you capture uncompressed?

Well.. "uncompressed". Project settings were. 4:2:2 8bit 25psf

About the drives. When I had the first project things seemed pretty normal. However, since about three weeks or so I have many times when the HDD's are working like mad, but when loading a clip into the source monitor there is not so much hard drive activity. I double click a clip or double clip a click if you wish :), and it just takes about 5 - 10 second to load it into the monitor.
Another thing. Sometimes, when I try to grab a clip's head to shorten it or make it longer, Premiere just hangs for about 10 to 30 seconds. This is only seolvde by a restart.
And another one. Trying to fade in/out clips using the opacity controls doesn't have any result at all. The clip plays out just as it is.

I didn't try yet to work with shorter clips and smaller HD projects.


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Tim Kolb
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 10, 2005 at 12:24:20 am

[colourblind] "Another thing. Sometimes, when I try to grab a clip's head to shorten it or make it longer, Premiere just hangs for about 10 to 30 seconds. This is only seolvde by a restart.
And another one. Trying to fade in/out clips using the opacity controls doesn't have any result at all. The clip plays out just as it is."


Now THAT's interesting...

Are there specific Black Magic project settings for the project?
This is not a behavior that I have any experience with...

Also, I'd be curious about a few more specifics on the hardware config. It does sound like your PPro system is giving the software a bad name...

Yikes.






TimK,

Kolb Syverson Communications,
Creative Cow Host,
2004-2005 NAB Post Production Conference
Premiere Pro Technical Chair,
Author, "The Easy Guide to Premiere Pro" http://www.focalpress.com
"Premiere Pro Fast Track DVD Series" http://www.classondemand.net


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colourblind
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 10, 2005 at 2:01:42 pm



The preset settings provided by the blackmagic design plugin that comes with the HD card ar as follows.

HD1080
10 bit RGB
Interlaced 50i 59.94i 60i
PsF 23.976 24p 25p 29.97p 30p
10 bit YUB
Interlaced - same framerate options
PsF - same framerate options
HD720
10bit RGB
59.94p
60p
10bitYUV
23.976p
24p
25p
29.97p
30p
50p
59.94p
60p
8 bit yuv - same framerate options
NTSC
PAL

Now that I came to this, I have never looked over the HD720 setting I'm wondering what's the color space got to do with framerates anyway? IN other words why is 10bit RGB more limited framrate wise than the 10 bit YUV? Curious...

My system. As far as I know it:

2xAMD Opteron 246 @ 1.99ghz

3.39 RAM

2x250gb work drives (used for SD projects, AfterEffects stuff etc.)

1 Raid10 Array 2.8 TB (used only for HD footage)

HD Drive speeds:

Average framerates for HD footage 8bit YUV 4:2:2 is 93fps/read 71fps/write and for 10 bit 4:2:2 60fps/read 53fps/write.

In MPBS: 370/sec - read 280/sec - write. Speed tests were performed now with the disks filled at 75% of their capacity.


This is all I can come up with at this time. I'll try to come up with more details.


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colourblind
Re: Premiere and it's revolutionary Neanderthal Technology
on Jul 11, 2005 at 9:32:50 am

Just to avoid "giving the software a bad name", perhaps one admin could rename this thread. Give it a more peaceful name as... Premiere Issues or... Premiere Issues & HD. Premiere & his friends or something. :D


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Tim Kolb
Re: Premiere and his friends
on Jul 11, 2005 at 12:37:59 pm

[colourblind] "Just to avoid "giving the software a bad name", perhaps one admin could rename this thread. Give it a more peaceful name as... Premiere Issues or... Premiere Issues & HD. Premiere & his friends or something. :D"


Interesting point...it's probably not going to be a big deal. There have been threads with worse titles...

I'm still pondering some of your issues. I've not seen the behaviors you're describing myself and I need to ask around a bit...



TimK,

Kolb Syverson Communications,
Creative Cow Host,
2004-2005 NAB Post Production Conference
Premiere Pro Technical Chair,
Author, "The Easy Guide to Premiere Pro" http://www.focalpress.com
"Premiere Pro Fast Track DVD Series" http://www.classondemand.net


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colourblind
Re: Premiere and his friends
on Jul 11, 2005 at 12:42:36 pm



"I'm still pondering some of your issues. I've not seen the behaviors you're describing myself and I need to ask around a bit..."

Well many thanks. Anyway. Getting to the bottom of this would be an interesting / useful thing for everyone I guess.

Thanks
CB


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Tim Kolb
Re: Premiere and his friends
on Jul 14, 2005 at 3:34:53 am

[colourblind] ""I'm still pondering some of your issues. I've not seen the behaviors you're describing myself and I need to ask around a bit..."

Well many thanks. Anyway. Getting to the bottom of this would be an interesting / useful thing for everyone I guess."


So far I'm not getting much promising info on this...but I haven't forgotten.





TimK,

Kolb Syverson Communications,
Creative Cow Host,
2004-2005 NAB Post Production Conference
Premiere Pro Technical Chair,
Author, "The Easy Guide to Premiere Pro" http://www.focalpress.com
"Premiere Pro Fast Track DVD Series" http://www.classondemand.net


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colourblind
Re: Premiere and his friends
on Jul 14, 2005 at 10:20:35 am

"So far I'm not getting much promising info on this...but I haven't forgotten."


Well... I'll also try to look around for answers too. And also stress my editing system see if I find out anything that might give us a clue.

Regards,
CB



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