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Explain plosives and syllabytes

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STYLZ
Explain plosives and syllabytes
on May 13, 2005 at 10:00:11 am

Can any of you knowledgable gentlemen explain the "theory" behind cutting on plosives and or syllabytes(sp), or direct me to a website that can. I need to know why this method works. To know is to understand, and understanding is half the battle.*cue G.I. Joe theme thong*

Thanks


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Charlie King
Re: Explain plosives and syllabytes
on May 13, 2005 at 8:37:53 pm

I'm not sure I even know what you are talking about. I always just made the edit where it felt good, If it don't feel good, there ain't no theory that works. So I guess I edit on the feel good nethod.

Charlie


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STYLZ
Re: Explain plosives and syllabytes
on May 14, 2005 at 4:36:26 am

wow, really. Plosives are p's, t's, b's, d's. Don't know the exact definition. I have no clue what syllabytes are(nor how to spell it correctly) which is probably why I came up with nothing on yahoo search(thus resorting to this forum).


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gaspar
Re: Explain plosives and syllabytes
on May 14, 2005 at 4:47:41 am

Syllables maybe?


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STYLZ
Re: Explain plosives and syllabytes
on May 14, 2005 at 6:14:56 am

no.


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Tore Gresdal
Re: Explain plosives and syllabytes
on May 14, 2005 at 8:18:22 am

I have a book called Audio Postproduction for Digital video by Jay Rose which has an entire chapter on editing dialog. And page 183-191 is dedicated to Phonetic-based editing.

Quote from that introduction of chapter:
We could predict exactly which tiny sounds made up "the small pot" or "my name Jay" because there aren't very many ways humans move their mouths during speech. Standard american english uses only about three dozen of them.
Tables below show them organized into groups based on their usefulnes to editors. Note how there's no phoneme for c, because it's sometimes /s/ and sometimes /k/. But there are 15 phonemes and dipthongs for the five vowels. That's why, when your scanning a script or transcript to find replacement sounds or likely edits, it helps to say the word aloud. The two columns -unvoiced and voiced- have to do with how the sound is generated. You'll see why this is important later in this chapter.



ISBN on the book is:1578201160

Regards
Tore Gresdal

Here's the direct link if you want:


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Tim Kolb
Re: Explain plosives and syllabytes
on May 14, 2005 at 2:50:59 pm

I suspect this is because the viewer is already getting a sort of "impact point" when a plosive is spoken and it will make the audio edit much less obvious than say, editing in the middle of a vowel sound, which may make the cut more obvious...

I think there are several books out on basic audio production as well as Jay Rose's book, which is excellent.

Lots of choices...

TimK
Kolb Syverson Communications
Creative Cow Host
2004, 2005 NAB Post Production Conference Premiere Pro Technical Chair
Author, "The Easy Guide to Premiere Pro" http://www.focalpress.com
"Premiere Pro Fast Track DVD Series" http://www.classondemand.net


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Steven L. Gotz
Re: Explain plosives and syllabytes
on May 15, 2005 at 2:39:07 am

I think he meant Sibilants

http://www.screensound.gov.au/glossary.nsf/Pages/Sibilants?OpenDocument

Steven
Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 / After Effects 6.5 Pro http://www.stevengotz.com
Learning Adobe Premiere Pro 1.5 http://www.lynda.com
Contributing Writer, PeachPit Press, Visual QuickPro Guide, Premiere Pro 1.5


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STYLZ
Re: Explain plosives and syllabytes
on May 15, 2005 at 4:33:42 am

yes thats it. Thanks.


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Tore Gresdal
Re: Explain plosives and syllabytes
on May 15, 2005 at 8:12:27 am

BTW: I remember someone told me once that you could give your subject a glass of water to reduce plosives in the mic. They usually get a very dry mouth from nervousness and that causes more pops in the microphone. Dunno if it applies to sibilants as well... but worth a try...

Regards
Tore Gresdal


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Charlie King
Re: Explain plosives and syllabytes
on May 16, 2005 at 3:34:27 pm

Thanks for the explanations. As for editing, I still edit where it feels good.

Charlie


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JRF
Re: Explain plosives and syllabytes
by
on May 18, 2005 at 1:42:55 am

If you look at a waveform display of the audio you can see much of what's being discussed above. "P"s, "K"s and "S"s (and many others) have distinctive shapes. Once you get used to them you will know the sound even without listening. If you need to replace a word, or partial word, it's often easier to cut on a hard sound, particularly if you see the same shape on your waveform in the original and its replacement. Sometimes you might want to edit one "S" to another "S" and find the cut doesn't sound right. Try a very short fade between the two sounds to blend them and smooth them out.

If your editor has enough resolution (ie sub-frame) you can try to cut out some of a plosive if it's a problem. Leave the beginning of the sound and edit out some of the jaggedness. Don't go too far, or you'll affect the word. It's trial and error most of the time. You'll use UNDO a lot.

John

Dual 2.5 G5 4 gigs RAM OS 10.3.8 QT6.5.2
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Todd Beabout
Re: Explain plosives and syllabytes
on Jul 6, 2005 at 10:40:27 pm

Here here. Are you other guys even talking about VIDEO editing? If so then sound is certainly part of the edit, but it is only PART of the edit. I would never make a cut just because a manual said that I should cut on hard syllables or other such nonsense. Just my $.02

-Todd Beabout
Vazda Studios


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JRF
Re: Explain plosives and syllabytes
by
on Jul 7, 2005 at 2:08:02 pm

The sense of this thread was to address some audio challenges while editing. Of course the visual component is critical. I can't count the number of times I've L-cut an edit to line up dialogue from a different take in an over-the-shoulder shot, or just replace a word or two from one take with audio from another. The best situation is having the best overall edit - visually and aurally.

John



Dual 2.5 G5 4 gigs RAM OS 10.3.8 QT6.5.2

Dual Cinema 23 Radeon 9800

FCP4.5 DVDSP 3.0.2

Huge U-320R 1TB Raid 3 firmware ENG12.BIN

ATTO UL4D driver 3.20

AJA IO driver 1.3.1 firmware v21-26

SonicStudio HD DAW, Yamaha DM1000, Genelec Monitors


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Mark Frazier
Re: Explain plosives and syllabytes
on Jun 23, 2005 at 8:09:29 pm

I have to agree that the edit goes where it "feels" right. As a general rule, I use the waveform to see right where the"plosive" is and put my cut one frame before that. For me, that 1/30th of a second gives the edit a sharper look.


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