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Stephen Smith
Solo
on Jun 6, 2018 at 2:51:41 am

Right out the gate, I have to say I really enjoyed the film Solo and I'm not sure why there seems to be so much hate for the film. I'm not sure if it has more to do with it having lots of problems during production which made people think it was destined to suck? World War Z had similar bad vibes but ended up being a Summer smash hit. I thought the film belongs amongst the top Star Wars films and I can't wait to see the next one.

Stephen Smith

Utah Video Productions

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Chris Wright
Re: Solo
on Jun 6, 2018 at 4:44:13 am

hmm, i felt that there was one small problem. if you take out han, the movie still worked.
felt like a random no name bounty hunter who stole his credit card. hahah? oooh..
I wished too hard, that's my fault.


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Stephen Smith
Re: Solo
on Jun 6, 2018 at 5:02:07 pm

Chris,

Interesting point but I have to disagree. Keep in mind, this is like the Italian Job or a Fast & Furious film set in space. Sure you could remove a crew member and still have a film but it definitely wouldn't be the same. You have to keep in mind. This film is Han Solo's first rodeo. So, of course, he will have to take a back seat to the more experienced crew members and learn the ropes while trying to keep up. By the middle to end Solo is calling the shots and using his ability to come up with a good plan in order to save the day. If you take Solo out of the film you get a very different ending.

Stephen Smith

Utah Video Productions

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Jeff Hinkle
Re: Solo
on Jun 6, 2018 at 6:44:57 pm

I think my biggest issue was it simply didn't feel like a Star Wars movie. Change the names of Han, Chewie, and Lando to random sci-fi names and the film doesn't change a bit. This wasn't a group of crafty criminals operating under the nose of the omnipresent Empire in a galaxy far, far away, this was a rather generic heist movie set in a sci-fi setting. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not Star Wars. Add to that the fact that I never felt any correlation between this Han Solo and the scoundrel I grew up watching, and the disconnect is even greater. I could see Donald Glover's Little Lando turning into the Cloud City administrator we met in Empire, but Alden Ehrenreich's Solo never once felt like the same guy boasting about the Kessel Run in a Tatooine cantina.

From the behind-the-scenes perspective, the tales of troubled production didn't sour me on the film going in. Didn't fill me with hope, but I went in with an open mind. Although it does make me think Disney wasn't serious about the standalone movies being a chance for filmmakers to explore the Star Wars universe in new ways. Speaking of Disney, I hope the low box office has them reconsider their plans to try an recoup their $4B investment as fast as possible. Star Wars films used to be events. You waited, got excited, speculated endlessly with other fans, counted the days to the opening... Now it's another year, another movie. It's Call of Duty with lightsabers. Two more standalones, the final film in the new trilogy, ANOTHER trilogy, a live-action TV series (to launch their paid streaming service, of course)... I fear they're in real danger of killing the Golden Goose.

---
It is easier to destroy than to create.
More fun, too.


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Mike Cohen
Re: Solo
on Jun 6, 2018 at 7:00:55 pm

[Jeff Hinkle] "It's Call of Duty with lightsabers"

I think you mean "aggressive negotiations"!


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Mark Suszko
Re: Solo
on Jun 6, 2018 at 7:46:40 pm

This is where I make my elevator pitch for the next stand-alone movie, about plucky blast-door repairmen, fixing blasted control panels and bent and shattered doors. "Job security for life!"

Solo wasn't bad. it was even entertaining. It just wasn't really "necessary". In that it didn't *need* to fill-in the "holes" in the previous stories. You were safe to assume someone broke Han's heart and trust in his youth and it made him bitter and cynical and selfish. I don't know that we -needed- to see that worked out, and in this film, that entire idea takes a decided back seat to the caper. Probably should have been reversed to make it more romantic.

I think maybe the script was trying a little hard to be "Casablanca" and not hard enough to be: "To Have and Have Not."


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Stephen Smith
Re: Solo
on Jun 6, 2018 at 7:57:56 pm

[Jeff Hinkle]
I think my biggest issue was it simply didn't feel like a Star Wars movie.

I really liked that about the movie. I don't feel every Star Wars film has to have light sabors and the force. And why would this film? In A New Hope Han thinks the Jedi stuff is a bunch of bull which would mean he has never seen it in action. Without giving away the ending Han played a major role in setting up A New Hope.

[Jeff Hinkle]
but Alden Ehrenreich's Solo never once felt like the same guy boasting about the Kessel Run in a Tatooine cantina.

I agree, and that is the biggest complaint I have heard about the film. I really can't think of an actor that would look and act just like Harrison Ford. This movie probably takes 2-10 years before A New Hope. With the crazy predicaments Solo would get into over the course of a year you could make 10 movies if you wanted to. My point is, in the movie "Solo" you are watching a kid. In a New Hope you are watching a Man. A person would change a lot in that amount of time while experiencing those situations. Of course, he isn't going to be the same guy boasting about the Kessel Run in a Tatooine Cantina. He isn't that sessioned yet.

[Jeff Hinkle]
Speaking of Disney, I hope the low box office has them reconsider their plans to try an recoup their $4B investment as fast as possible.

Star Wars: The Force Awakens, Rouge One & The Last Jedi made over 4 Billion in ticket sales. Plus the billions you know they made in DVD, BluRay & Digital Sales. Plus Netflix. Plus toy licensing. Plus the money to come from the new amusement park that I think opens next year. The CEO of Disney Bob Iger is a genius and adding Star Wars to the Disney family was a move no one at Disney is regretting.

[Jeff Hinkle]
Star Wars films used to be events. You waited, got excited, speculated endlessly with other fans, counted the days to the opening... Now it's another year, another movie.

It used to be that way with Marvel as well. Now there will be 3 Marvel films released this year alone before August. And I'll end up seeing all 3 in the theater. Does that mean every Marvel/Star Wars films will be incredible? Of course not. And we will all disagree on which is the best ones.

Side note, Bod Iger also is responsible for purchasing Marvel and bringing it into the Disney fold. I believe Iron Man 2 was the first film they did. And it sucked in my opinion. But it definitely didn't kill the Golden Goose.

Stephen Smith

Utah Video Productions

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Mike Cohen
Re: Solo
on Jun 6, 2018 at 8:14:50 pm

[Stephen Smith] "Does that mean every Marvel/Star Wars films will be incredible? Of course not. And we will all disagree on which is the best ones. "

I am looking forward to Iron Man 4, which tells the story of a young Tony Stark. He breaks into his dad's lab and gets into all sorts of trouble, before meeting and being mentored by Happy who becomes his assistant but actually has some super power that we don't know about yet. They will use motion capture with Robert Downey Jr and Jon Favreau but digitally make them younger.


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Mark Suszko
Re: Solo
on Jun 6, 2018 at 10:00:39 pm

Tony Stark is actually adopted. His biological mom was a SHIELD agent who posed as a touring rock singer for her cover. Howard and Maria Stark's REAL son is Arno Stark, born with medical issues and hidden from sight because an alien hit squad was looking for him to reclaim the DNA modification tech used to fix his genetic birth defects... the "car crash" that claimed Starks' parents' lives was from them fighting the hit squad while making a getaway and hiding the real Stark child out of sight and public records.


...that's the current comics cannon .

I kid you not.


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Stephen Smith
Re: Solo
on Jun 6, 2018 at 10:14:04 pm

Mike, I'm excited for Iron Man 4 where it shows how he met Happy. Will this take place before he becomes a doctor and meets Buddy The Elf or after?



Stephen Smith

Utah Video Productions

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Jeff Hinkle
Re: Solo
on Jun 7, 2018 at 1:41:09 pm

[Stephen Smith] "I don't feel every Star Wars film has to have light sabors and the force."

Nor do I, but they should at least feel part of the same universe. Solo, to me, does not. Look at Rogue One, nary a lightsaber in sight but it feels like it's still part of that universe. Granted, there's X-Wings, TIE Fighters, the Death Star and Darth Vader, but even without all that, it looks and feels Star Wars. To me, anyway.

[Stephen Smith] "I really can't think of an actor that would look and act just like Harrison Ford."

Honestly, someone trying to imitate Harrison Ford for two hours would likely be distracting and annoying. But he should at least pull in some of Ford's mannerisms, movements, speaking cadence, something to at least hint that it's a younger version of the same character. Donald Glover, while not mimicking Billy Dee Williams, still hinted at him in his line delivery and lowering his vocal pitch. You got glimpses of the character we know. Ehrenreich seemed to just be doing whatever he felt like. You're not Han Solo just because you say you are.

[Stephen Smith] "A person would change a lot in that amount of time while experiencing those situations"

Absolutely, we're all shaped by our experiences. I'm not the same guy I was 10 years ago (hopefully changing for the better) but if you see video of me from then, you can still tell it's me. Different, but me. My way of moving and speaking, while different, will still be recognizable and familiar. And speaking of changes, by painting Solo as basically a good guy right from the start, doesn't that kind of wreck his story arc from the original films? No longer a selfish rogue who ultimately learns to fight for something greater than himself, he was always a good guy who just lost his way for a while?

As far as Star Wars/Marvel, not sure the two are comparable. Marvel movies have a lot more leeway in tone. Thor: Ragnarok is basically a buddy cop comedy while Captain America: Winter Soldier is a political thriller. Same universe, same characters, vastly different feel. So two, three movies in the same year don't feel like we're just getting more of the same. Despite that apparently being the original plan with the standalone films, I don't think Lucasfilm/Disney are willing to do that with Star Wars. Probably why they fired Lord and Miller in the first place.

[Mike Cohen] "I think you mean "aggressive negotiations"!"
Sand-lover!

[Mark Suszko] "...while making a getaway and hiding the real Stark child out of sight and public records"
Is that before or after he meets up with Boba Fett?

---
It is easier to destroy than to create.
More fun, too.


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Stephen Smith
Re: Solo
on Jun 7, 2018 at 2:51:30 pm

[Jeff Hinkle]
Look at Rogue One, nary a lightsaber in sight but it feels like it's still part of that universe.

What?





[Jeff Hinkle]
Granted, there's X-Wings, TIE Fighters, the Death Star and Darth Vader, but even without all that, it looks and feels Star Wars. To me, anyway.


If you remove the Empire from Rouge One you don't have a movie at all. I'm really not sure what you feel a movie most have to feel like a Star Wars movie. I agree with you that Solo doesn't feel like the other films. But I think that is a good thing.

[Jeff Hinkle]
As far as Star Wars/Marvel, not sure the two are comparable. Marvel movies have a lot more leeway in tone. Thor: Ragnarok is basically a buddy cop comedy while Captain America: Winter Soldier is a political thriller. Same universe, same characters, vastly different feel. So two, three movies in the same year don't feel like we're just getting more of the same. Despite that apparently being the original plan with the standalone films, I don't think Lucasfilm/Disney are willing to do that with Star Wars. Probably why they fired Lord and Miller in the first place.


So wait, you are saying it is okay in the Marvel universe to have leeway in tone but not in the Star Wars Universe? I think the two brands are no different and you will see all sorts of Star Wars films that don't act or completely look like the films George Lucas created.

Regardless of what you and I think, Disney will be making a lot more Star Wars films. I just looked up the 2018 domestic grosses box office ranking. 1. Black Panther, 2. Avenger: Infinity War, 5. Solo: A Star Wars Story. And Solo still has time to make even more money. The Marvel - Star Wars brand print money for Disney and no one in charge is going to turn off the printer.

Stephen Smith

Utah Video Productions

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Stephen Smith
Re: Solo
on Jun 7, 2018 at 2:55:36 pm

Did this thread set the record for the most posts in this forum? It looks like Solo brought us all together? Scott, Tim and Kylee need to chime in.

Stephen Smith

Utah Video Productions

Check out my Vimeo page


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Jeff Hinkle
Re: Solo
on Jun 7, 2018 at 3:37:49 pm

[Stephen Smith] "Disney will be making a lot more Star Wars films."

And that makes me kinda sad. Because it's not "We have a good idea," it's "We need something on the slate to punch up up our Q2 earnings." Here, goosie, goosie, goosie...

---
It is easier to destroy than to create.
More fun, too.


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Mike Cohen
Re: Solo
on Jun 7, 2018 at 4:08:03 pm

This seems like a good time to talk about The Making of Star Wars, a coffee table book released in 2007. I just got a copy and have been reading it. The book is a play by play account of the original movie, from Lucas' early ideas in the late 60s until release. There are many anecdotes I have read about before, but this book is composed using diaries and interviews conducted with cast and crew prior to the film's release. There are some cool behind the scenes photos and it really weaves an interesting story about a movie that almost never happened.

A really interesting aspect was that Fox greenlit the writing, but there was a six week delay before they released funds to start filming, while keeping the release date intact. Thus, the actual shooting in Tunisia and London was behind schedule from Day 1. By the end of filming Lucas was physically ill and depressed, and much of the work done by the ILM folks concurrent with principle photography was not used. The plan had been for ILM to shoot film to be used in front projection during filming, so that actors could react to actual content viewed from ship cockpits, for example, but due to the time schedule and complexity, it was not to be. They decided to switch to blue screen, adding cost to the shoot, and reducing time to create the content during post-production.

The original editor started assembling the movie during filming, but Lucas and Fox were not happy with the draft, and after the film wrapped, they started the editing from scratch.

When the budget ballooned past $10 million Fox was worried it would never make its money back.

There are many more tidbits like these.

Relating this back to the current conversation about Solo and the SW empire of 2018 and beyond...the indy sci-fi experiment has evolved into a juggernaut that up until 2016 seemed unstoppable. With the fan backlash over TLJ and Solo, Disney and Lucasfilm may just continue with their plan to release a movie a year until they run out of ideas, or money, or both. But if making films to delight new and old fans alike, they may want to look at what fans are actually interested in, whether they convene advisory panels or talk to Hollywood types who are actual SW fans. In the end, they will do what they do and we can love it or leave it. Thus far, I still love it.

Mike


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Stephen Smith
Re: Solo
on Jun 7, 2018 at 5:19:42 pm

Jeff,

I hope you are wrong. Time will tell. If they can do what they did for the Marvel Universe with the Star Wars one then we have a lot to look forward to...or at least I do. I'm not sure how you feel about the Marvel films.

Stephen Smith

Utah Video Productions

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Mike Cohen
Re: Solo
on Jun 7, 2018 at 5:40:21 pm

I have seen all of the Marvel films except for Black Panther and Infinity War. They were designed to all fit together and tell a long interconnected story. Even Agents of SHIELD fits into the timeline if you watch everything sequentially. Although some of the movies like Iron Man 3 and Civil War were in my opinion not very interesting, they all contribute to the big picture. The movies even have some callbacks to earlier movies, like how the little kid in Iron Man 3 asks Tony about going through the wormhole. It seems the Marvel films can just keep going, and now that Spidey and Guardians are part of the Avengers they have lots to work with. I wouldn't mind seeing another standalone Hulk movie now that they have established a more polished Bruce Banner with Mark Ruffalo.

"Star Wars: The Next Generation" is different. The Sequel Trilogy continue to Skywalker story, but the spinoff movies do not directly contribute to the storyline. I have had to educate a few people about how Rogue One fits into the timeline, for example. Not to compare apples to oranges, or using proper terminology...not to compare infinity stones to kyber crystals, but a cinematic universe should have some consistency and not require having to educate viewers as to how the movies fit together.

With that in mind, maybe origin stories are not the way to go - those should have come before the sequels. Maybe the spinoffs should fill in the events between numbered movies and introduce some of the new characters. A Poe Dameron movie (his parents fought with the rebels on Endor) or something about the formation of the First Order after the fall of the Empire and perhaps a little about where Snoke came from.

Of course it is already to late to do some of this. That being said, if the first movie out of Disney was Poe Dameron: X-Wing Ace people would have likewise been confused, since there was not existing knowledge of the character. Marvel has the advantage of decades of character recognition. The Hulk, Spiderman and Captain America were pretty well known before the movie universe started.


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Jeff Hinkle
Re: Solo
on Jun 7, 2018 at 6:43:32 pm

[Stephen Smith] "I'm not sure how you feel about the Marvel films."

I like them a lot. I kinda doubt their claim that they were building towards Infinity War from the very beginning (I'd believe that Avengers might have been on their minds if things went really well), but they did a great job connecting the dots and the films have been overall very enjoyable. Seen 'em all and they all sit on my shelf.

And please don't think I'm a Star Wars naysayer. It's my oldest and dearest fandom. I just don't want to see it turn into a factory of cranking out a film every year because Disney knows there's a built-in audience. It deserves better than the Fast & the Furious treatment.

And Mike, that entire set of books is fantastic. I need to re-read them one of these days.

---
It is easier to destroy than to create.
More fun, too.


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Mike Cohen
Re: Solo
on Jun 7, 2018 at 6:54:14 pm

[Jeff Hinkle] "And Mike, that entire set of books is fantastic. I need to re-read them one of these days."

No spoilers please - I don't want to know if Empire or Jedi were finished on time!


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Stephen Smith
Re: Solo
on Jun 7, 2018 at 8:36:32 pm

[Jeff Hinkle]
I just don't want to see it turn into a factory of cranking out a film every year because Disney knows there's a built-in audience.

I agree. This was a fun discussion.


[Jeff Hinkle]
It deserves better than the Fast & the Furious treatment.

Ha ha, I actually really love those films. Once the Rock joined the line up in Fast 5 it became a mega-franchise. The last 2 films are on the top 15 worldwide most money every made box office list.

Stephen Smith

Utah Video Productions

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Scott Roberts
Re: Solo
on Jun 22, 2018 at 10:08:02 pm

[Stephen Smith] "Did this thread set the record for the most posts in this forum? It looks like Solo brought us all together? Scott, Tim and Kylee need to chime in."



Sorry, I've been uncomfortably busy this year. But I got some thoughts!

I saw this movie, what...? A month ago?

I barely remember any of it. Not a great sign. Especially for a franchise I've cared about my entire life.

I wouldn't say that it was a bad movie. Definitely not. It's an average movie. I left the theater and my wife and I barely even talked about it on the car ride home. I went to work the next day and didn't mention it to anyone. As far as my friends or co-workers knew, I never even saw Solo. I went to dinner with my wife's family a week or two after I saw it, and my father-in-law asked if I saw the new Star Wars movie. I said, "Yeah, I saw it. What about you?" "Yep I saw it." "What did you think?" "It was alright. You?" "Yeah, it was fine. Sure."

That's the kind of riveting conversation this movie stirred up in my personal life.

I saw Tag recently, that Ed Helms movie. I will swear on whatever document you want me to; I honestly felt more emotions during a movie *about the game of tag* than I did during Solo. [clears throat] TAG. A DUMB COMEDY ABOUT THE GAME OF TAG. IT WAS MORE ENJOYABLE THAN THE NEW STAR WARS MOVIE. This is very troubling.

So, what was really wrong with it?

For starters, every Star Wars movie I've seen (prequels excluded) at least has memorable cinematography or "moments". I don't remember any from Solo. At least nothing special, or one that made me FEEL something. I thought there was more memorable cinematography in the *unused* shots from the Rogue One *teaser trailer* than there was in all of Solo.

Can I go into spoilers? Has it been long enough now?

One of the biggest forced moments of Solo was when the rebel leader took off her helmet and slowly, dramatically revealed her face... OF SOMEONE WE DON'T KNOW. I don't even remember her name. At first I was like, "Is that supposed to be Woody Harrelson and Thandie Newton's long lost daughter?" I don't get it. Why should I care about this character? I left the theater feeling the same way. Big reveal for a nobody. That's the kind of reveal you do when you introduce a cameo by Boba Fett or something. Not some nobody.

Oh, and that Darth Maul thing. What was the deal with THAT? That was like the one thing we talked about in the car ride home from the movie. I was like "Last time I checked, Darth Maul got chopped in half and fell down a 300 story tube..." My wife then googled it. Apparently, he isn't dead and he's now half robot, because that's what happened on a Star Wars CARTOON show, that I *certainly* don't watch, and probably never will. This type of #brand synergy is incredibly lame. The second that Marvel starts incorporating any of their TV show characters or plot points into the movies is probably when I stop watching the movies. The TV shows have bad production value and I don't like them! You can't make me watch them! >:P

I would disagree that is is like Fast & Furious in space, because those F&F movies are at least memorably dumb/crazy. Every time they make a new F&F movie, they put in all of their chips into it to top the one that came out before it, and I commend them for that. Solo didn't try to top anything. Like honestly, it didn't even really try.

One reason, though, why it may have "flopped" at the box office (in Star Wars terms) isn't because of some "Star Wars fatigue" idea. We live in a binge culture where people will watch an entire 12 episode TV series over a weekend, so I don't think we should have a problem watching two unrelated Star Wars movies six months apart... I think it was more big-summer-blockbuster fatigue. This movie came out right after Infinity War and Deadpool 2. Two movies that were just as big in scale and hype as Solo (and also much better than Solo, in my opinion), and Solo now had to top these huge expectations of not just being a new Star Wars movie, but also being better than these other two movies that everyone just went out and saw. Tough break.

So, was Solo fun? Yeah, sure, I guess? I wasn't wriggling in my seat waiting for it to end. Do I want to watch it again because of its fun factor? Not reaaaaaaaaallllllly... Usually before I rewatch a movie I think about 4-5 really cool moments I'm looking forward to seeing again. I don't know that I can think of any really great moments that amp me up in Solo. I do believe it will be the first (non-prequel) Star Wars movie that I won't buy on Blu-ray. I'd give it a C+.


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Stephen Smith
Re: Solo
on Jun 22, 2018 at 10:25:24 pm

[Scott]

I think it was more big-summer-blockbuster fatigue. This movie came out right after Infinity War and Deadpool 2.

To me, that was the real head-scratcher. Why didn't they save this film for the end of Summer? I would have released it after Mission Impossible comes out. As mentioned, I didn't think the film was as bad as a lot of people where saying...but it isn't in the league of Infinity War or Incredibles 2 which is just killing it.

Stephen Smith

Utah Video Productions

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Carly Swinson
Re: Solo
on Sep 10, 2018 at 9:25:03 am

I like this Han Solo character and i like this movie because you get to now the logic or history behind the creation of such fascinating characters.

Web Designer & Developer


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