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Rename this forum???

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Michael Brennan
Rename this forum???
on Feb 24, 2006 at 1:21:31 pm


Now that the CInealta product range includes 25mbs HDV camera and
since cow already has HDV forum suggest you rename/scap this forum?


Mike Brennan


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Steve Wargo
Re: Rename this forum???
on Feb 24, 2006 at 2:15:05 pm

Rename it to what "Sellout HD". Labeling their XDCAM as a CineAlta product is a slap in the face to all of us who own their high dollar product.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona

It's a dry heat!


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Michael Bravin
Re: Rename this forum???
on Mar 3, 2006 at 4:51:39 am

Boys Boys

There is NO 25Mb/s HDV camera name CineAlta, Michael, why you would put this out is mysterious to me.

The XDCAM HD system is a lesser CineAlta brand. With a silver Logo rather than gold. It does do CBR 25Mb/s CBR for "compatibility" with HDV MPTS in ONE mode with HDV BUT it is a 35Mb/s VBR MPEG2 HD camcorder.

It looks VERY good does variable frame rate native to disk and it is designed as a lower end camera to the F900R which is a new CineAlta model.

Fault Sony for whatever you wish but in my view they are guilty of committing BIG TIME and providing a VERY COMPREHENSIVE and FULL lineup of HD product from the A1U HDV CMOS camcorder to the HDC 1500 4:4:4 camera with 5 cameras in between. And you criticize this???

Confused

Michael Bravin
Chief Technology Officer


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Michael Brennan
Rename this forum???
on Mar 4, 2006 at 11:59:38 am



Michael,

Facts

*They put the cinealta brand on a camera that records HDV comaptable 25mbs.

*There is no 24p/25p 4:4:4 camera from Sony currently available.

*There has been no announceent or guide from Sony about a replacement to the f950.Although there have been rumors in the last week about a 444 upgrade to 1500.

*The new f900R with IT sensor could also have been called a upgraded HDW 750 with a $85k price tag (with boards) just for 24p and 12bit AD. (very few digibeta 709 IT cameras were sold in Europe, with endusers prefering to pay 20% more for 790s with FIT, so IT is regarded as inferior in Europe. However IT is popular in Australia as it is cheap.)


By the way when did I say that Sony were not committed to HD???
Of course they are comitted as a company, but that doesn't mean that they are serving the interest of the market.
From a reseller perspective you have new models to sell, from a high end user perspective there is the new capability of 1080 60p from the HDC 1500, but also the cinealta badging of f350 undoes the last four years of establishing quality benchmarks.


The 60p 14bit AD HDC 1500 gets full marks but a cinealta 35mbs camcorder with faux progressive and a $85k IT chip camcorder both deserve faint praise.



Mike Brennan



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Michael Brennan
Rename this forum???
on Mar 4, 2006 at 12:45:52 pm

I should add that the f900r having a IT sensor is based in IBC info, no specs available from Sony.
They said it is "compatable" with existing f900.

The HDC1500 at launch was said to have a IT chip. Hard to find any mention in the 1500 literature if it is IT or FIT.


Mike Brennan


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Michael Bravin
Re: Rename this forum???
on Mar 4, 2006 at 8:47:47 pm

Michael,

The F900R is FIT and $80K and the info has been on the web since Feb 20

http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/6492

Regardless of what people "think" about IT vs FIT the 1500 with an IT chip is becoming the most popular OB van and Mobile production camera worldwide. IT performance today FAR EXCEEDS FIT in the recent past

The F350 is a 35MB/s system with 25 and 18 as options and the Cinealta badge is Silver instead of Gold, perhaps a minor point but not marketed as the same as the F900 & 750 Cinealta. Hell, here in the US and many other places around the world the 750P is considered CineALta lite already because of 10 bit processing.

Michael Bravin
Cheif Technology Officer
Band Pro Film & Digital


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Bill Skinner
billskinnersa@hotmail.com
on Mar 12, 2006 at 11:15:37 am

Mike,

Get your facts straight, the f350 records a true progressive frame just as the f900 does.


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john sharaf
Re: Rename this forum???
on Mar 4, 2006 at 9:10:51 pm

Michael,

Regardless of the recording format, new permutations of High Definition photography will eminate from Sony and the other camera manufacturers. As end users we are the tail that the dog wags; we must use the products the camera makers create and our clients choose. This does not mean that we love every aspect or feature included, but as creatives, must find our own ways to make best use of these products.

That's precisely the value of this (and other) forums that exist for productive interaction amoungst users, resellers and manufacturers. In fact there are very few such venues that actually bring all these parties together in such a persuit. Even the trade shows, which one might reasonably argue are intended to do the same thing, inevitably are more marketing oriented.

I'm more into expanding the "jurisdiction" of this forum as opposed to limiting it, and hope that to do so would help to increase the traffic of questions, answers and commentary here that would be helpful to all cinematographers who are now expanding their horizons into video photography. We should cherish the participation of practisioners of all levels of experience, for where else will the neophites be able to learn? Hopefully they will be greatful to those of us who are willing to share our hard earned lessons using Sony Cine Alta HD gear here.

JS


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cowcow
Michael Bravin
Re: Rename this forum???
on Mar 4, 2006 at 11:00:27 pm

John

I do not think you should rename this forum. I wish it had more participation quite frankly.

I welcome the participation and input from all participants it helps me grow professionally.

I really get irritated when people present innaccurate information and present guesses and rumor as fact.

Why not just say I think I guess I want I heard I have a prejudice about etc?

Taking swipes at Sony is a popular sport on the net, hell I have done it, but if one is going to play this sport like any sport one should be a bit proficient at it first, i.e. come with solid verifiable accurate information.

Sadly many do not.

I hope you didn't misunderstand my posts.

Respectfully

Michael Bravin
Chief Technology Officer
Band Pro Film & Digital


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john sharaf
Re: Rename this forum???
on Mar 4, 2006 at 11:25:02 pm

Michael,

To be sure, I don't have any argument with you; in fact of all the experts who contribute to this and other HD forums I find that I agree with you almost every time (both factually and humorously). In fact I consider you to be my "go to guy" when I really need the straight facts and I find that even though you work for the leading Sony dealer you too always have a realistic understanding of the complaints that folks have with Sony.

I've had many complaints myself in the past I'll admit, but lately I've come to take them a lot less personally; mainly because I now seem to get the same treatment from Panasonic as well (I own four Varicams as you might know).

I believe the industry is caught up in a swirling cycle of product development that is costly to both the manufacturers and the end user/owners, and can only engender ill will.

The ploriferation of formats can only be blamed on the Advanced TV commission's mandate to let the market decide; maybe in the end, several years from now when this does sort itself out there will be format "winners" for both TV and MP use but I don't think it will ever be as simple as the old 35, 16, Super 8mm paradigm!


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Digistream
Re: Rename this forum???
on Aug 12, 2006 at 5:56:14 pm

I agree about the value attached to this forum, as a shooter who's mostly used to using Varicam, I could never afford to buy one of these units myself... But I find the info on the forum really useful, even if I don't post that often.

Maybe a separate XDcam forum would be appropriate, it seems to be its own niche for the moment, guys like us who want the best but can't afford it; or want something better than interlaced HDV. A stand alone forum may superficially solve the wannabe problem that the Cinealta label has given rise to.

One question, on XDcam (funnily enough): how does the 350 do variable frame rate, is it really variable full progressive frames or is it some sort of smoke & mirrors mpeg trick?

Many thanks




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