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Sony SRW 5500 clones off by 1 frame

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Chris Monte
Sony SRW 5500 clones off by 1 frame
on May 16, 2009 at 10:47:00 pm

Some days it works -- some days it doesn't. I have an HDW 1800 and an SRW 5500. I clone between them all of the time - 1800 is the player, 5500 is recorder. For some reason, the 5500 is now starting 1 frame late on a clone. I've been playing with the reference in/auto (I'm feeding it house SD 29.97 reference sync). Also, We are in 1080i. I've also been playing with the LTCout Phase with no luck. Any ideas?

Chris Monte
Magic Hair Studios
3365 Barham Blvd
Los Angeles, CA 90068
323.851.2404


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Mark Raudonis
Re: Sony SRW 5500 clones off by 1 frame
on May 17, 2009 at 3:39:46 pm

[Chris Monte] "the 5500 is now starting 1 frame late on a clone."


This doesn't make sense. If you were creating a new output, then sure, something could be out of whack, but by definition, a clone is just a copy of your existing tape. How are you determining that you're off by a frame? And... are you checking the source in the same deck to confirm how the 5500 is reading that
tape? In other words, are you sure the "1 frame offset" isn't on the original tape?

If this used to work correctly, then obviously, something has changed in your settings/connections. Start by resetting the deck to defaults, then walk through the relevent settings one by one.

Sorry I can't be of more help, but that deck has over a 1000 pages of settings. It can be many things that are causing this... most likely however is your choice of reference and timecode settings. (int vs ext, LTC vs VITC)

Mark



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Chris Monte
Re: Sony SRW 5500 clones off by 1 frame
on May 17, 2009 at 3:51:18 pm

Mark,

I understand the strangeness of this situation. I did check the original output and indeed the show starts exactly at 1:00:00:00. Not only was the clone 1 frame late but the simultaneous downconvert to digibeta was the same 1 frame late.

I will reset to factory presets. I was just trying to avoid reprogramming all of my custom presets again. I do have them saved to an SD card but something must be amiss in something somewhere.

One other issue, is our latency when laying back from our Protools bay. Again, there used to be no problem and now the deck seems to be sending the wrong TC to the protools which causes a delay. Again, the 1800 works just fine. But the SRW is off by 1 -2 frames on layback.

I wish I had a better understanding of which signals are going where and how. Any insight how to learn that information?

Chris Monte
Magic Hair Studios
3365 Barham Blvd
Los Angeles, CA 90068
323.851.2404


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Steve Herring
Re: Sony SRW 5500 clones off by 1 frame
on May 22, 2009 at 10:01:19 pm

Chris,

Does your 5500 have the FC option? If so, check all of the timecode settings relating to the FC.

cheers,
Steve



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Chris Monte
Re: Sony SRW 5500 clones off by 1 frame
on May 23, 2009 at 2:42:27 am

Yes, it does have the FC board. The factory reset did work but, I'd love to know why this deck does what it does when.

Chris Monte
Magic Hair Studios
3365 Barham Blvd
Los Angeles, CA 90068
323.851.2404


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Scott Dempsey
Re: Sony SRW 5500 clones off by 1 frame
on Jun 8, 2009 at 2:59:12 pm

I am having a similar issue. I am laying off a feature film 4:4:4 dual link from a Kona 3 FCP system to a 5800 SR deck. Both the deck and the system are being fed sync by a sync generator. Everything in my timeline is set up properly. No video has to render, the only processing is there are 10 channels of audio, 8 plays without rendering but 10 has to be rendered. I could lay the show off 5 times and 1 time it may be in sync, but all the other times it will be 1 frame out, early or late. I have tried everything I can think of, tried different in points, tried re-initializing, I've tried laying off just the front of the show to make sure it is frame accurate before laying off the whole show to find that it is wrong and that hasn't worked either... I will do the test, it will be on, so then I do the layoff and it is 1 frame out. I am doing an insert with timecode now to see if that does it. That would mean having to black the whole tape before laying off which is a lot of time, I would much rather assemble. If anyone has any ideas I would love to hear them. Thanks



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Scott Dempsey
Re: Sony SRW 5500 clones off by 1 frame
on Jun 8, 2009 at 3:38:26 pm

Insert Edit to Tape worked... Although it worked, assemble SHOULD work too. Inserting would mean I would have to black a tape all the way, to get the job done. I know this is how we all did it back in the day but for a 2 hour layoff this takes too much time.



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Mark Spano
Re: Sony SRW 5500 clones off by 1 frame
on Jun 12, 2009 at 3:11:49 am

I have only ever experienced a problem like this when my FCP machine control was set incorrectly. If it was a Sony deck and the machine control was set to Panasonic RS-422 or something like that, it'd be off inconsistently. Also, if laying off to 720/59.94P, the machine control had to be set to Sony RS-422 at 29.97. Otherwise, I'd be hitting different in points every time. Check the machine control prefs in your remote protocol setup in FCP (under audio/video setup) - maybe there's something in there that's funky...



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Chad Brewer
Re: Sony SRW 5500 clones off by 1 frame
on Oct 28, 2009 at 1:17:44 am

I know this is an old thread, but also try ditching the sync generators and setting high end decks like this to input video instead of external reference and give them reference from another deck setup to the same specs.

It might help. It helps me.

chad


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Chris Monte
Re: Sony SRW 5500 clones off by 1 frame
on Oct 28, 2009 at 5:21:48 am

Thanks, Chad. It is still a mystery to me but it has been working fine for the last 4 months. What I'd like to do next is to do a clone and a downconvert at the same time as I am laying off. But alas, the clone and the downconvert are one frame late. Again, I am laying back to the hdw 1800 and then the SR 5500 and then a dvw A500 for the dc.

Chris Monte
Magic Hair Studios
3365 Barham Blvd
Los Angeles, CA 90068
323.851.2404


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Chad Brewer
Re: Sony SRW 5500 clones off by 1 frame
on Oct 29, 2009 at 1:18:43 am

Chris,
Are you cloning with LTC or VITC?
If you're cloning with VITC, there is no way there could be a delay in the SDI stream UNLESS there is a conversion or another piece of hardware between the two decks, e.g. frame rate conversion, at which point this wouldn't be a clone.

If you're cloning with LTC DIRECTLY between the two decks and still have a frame delay, then the problem is equipment related. LTC is an old school audio signal and either your TC patch is bad or your SRW5500 has a messed up TC in. That is to say though, that all of your 12,000 menu settings on your SRW5500 are setup correctly.

Let me know if you need any broadcast services or help with this issue. My midwest facility beats all "coast" facility prices.

chad
http://www.televersions.com



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