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tommaso cico
Red greenscreen workflow
on May 5, 2008 at 11:00:44 am

What is the best workflow for shooting greenscreen with red?
Should I pull a key from the r3d files or convert it to another format (prores..but it is only 422!),dpx or what else?
thanks
Tommaso




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Uli Plank
Re: Red greenscreen workflow
on May 5, 2008 at 4:37:26 pm

Go DPX and Shake, see below.

Regards,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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tommaso cico
Re: Red greenscreen workflow
on May 6, 2008 at 7:37:45 am

Thanks, one more: does .dpx files are in 4:4:4?If I use the Aja codec 10-bit RGB 4:4:4?
thanks
Tommaso



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Uli Plank
Re: Red greenscreen workflow
on May 6, 2008 at 8:49:09 am

IMHO 4:4:4 doesnt matter very much, the limitations are there from the start (Bayer pattern).

I'd consider depth more important for fine-tuning in post, and DPX is preserving all the depth you can get from your sensor, while 10 bit linear (either uncompressed or ProRes) is already throwing away some of it.

Regards,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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Graeme Nattress
Re: Red greenscreen workflow
on May 10, 2008 at 3:07:44 am

Uli, We take great care in the demosaic to ensure edges are correct. There is a resolution hit through the OLPF and demosaic, but, on the other side, that means very limited aliasing artifacts and the reconstruction of the image is to full RGB.

Bit depth is very important. If you're going out to 10bit DPX, I'd recommend either REC709 gamma or Redlog, both of which are good at preserving the 12bit sensor data precision. 10bit linear light is NOT recommended as you're loosing 2 stops precision which will show up as banding in the shadows.

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP


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Uli Plank
Re: Red greenscreen workflow
on May 10, 2008 at 5:24:49 am

Looking at my images, I'm very sure you take great care of edges in them. Thanks for your excellent work!

We get great keys even from just pulling them in with Log & Transfer as ProRes using values from a firstlight from REDAlert.

As stated before: The best workflow depends on the deliverables you need. If it's for high quality film-out, go 4:4.4 DPX log. If it's for lower cost options, ProRes can look perfect.

Regards,

Uli

Director of the Institute of Media Research (IMF) at Braunschweig University of Arts


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Graeme Nattress
Re: Red greenscreen workflow
on May 11, 2008 at 1:12:12 am

Thanks Uli. It's great to know my edges are working well for you!

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP


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Russell Lasson
Re: Red greenscreen workflow
on May 6, 2008 at 2:57:09 pm

DPX is 4:4:4 log. The Kona RBG codec had both a log and lin version. Uli is saying that 10-bit linear isn't keeping all of the data from the original sensor. That is great advice. I would also stay 4:4:4 because if you don't, you're automatically throwing away half of your color information. That's a big deal when you're trying to key out a certain color.

If I was doing a key, I would export to DPX at either 2K or 4K depending on my system and software.

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Kaleidoscope Pictures
Provo, UT


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gary adcock
Re: Red greenscreen workflow
on May 6, 2008 at 5:44:42 pm

I am going to go back to the beginning..


what is your deliverable? this sounds as if you are new to the DPX / 4:4:4 requirement and needs.

In my experience 80% of users are fine Keying out from ProRes or 10bit UC footage rather than going the DPX route. I would not recommend the complexity of the DPX workflow for a new user without first testing on a small project, do to the shear number of files that need to be created and kept track of when you realize you are creating 86,400 files for every hour of content

did i mention that those frames in 2K are about 8MBs and at 4K they are 48 MBs EACH

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Russell Lasson
Re: Red greenscreen workflow
on May 6, 2008 at 6:29:33 pm

I agree with Gary. I was being ambitious to suggest DPX for a new user. Technically DPX is the best way, though depending on your system and workflow, it might not be smart to try to deal with such large files/processing.

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Kaleidoscope Pictures
Provo, UT


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tommaso cico
Re: Red greenscreen workflow
on May 6, 2008 at 11:53:54 pm

thanks guys for the big help. I know working with dpx is not as simpe as others workflow but in autumn I will work in a post facility that owns a red camera and I want just to be prepared.
I have never pulled a key from film or red camera before with .dpx workflow. It seems hard but it gives a lot more room to work if compared to my hvx200..




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Gunleik Groven
Re: Red greenscreen workflow
on May 10, 2008 at 5:32:15 pm

I'll just add that for keying/compositing, I think you actually save a lot of time going the DPX route, even if you cannot play it vack in realtime. The files just behave extremely well and for the first time keing is what I thought it was supposed to be. Not so with the prores files.

Just my 2c

It's gonna be a Red Hot Year
http://www.vulture.no/Websted/Reel.html


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Chris Adams
Re: Red greenscreen workflow
on Sep 30, 2008 at 7:34:24 pm

Hmm What is the best way to go from say FCP/Red****whatever app rushes etc. to say digital fusion and back to FCP. I did find i can ingest into FCP or hell even out of red-rushes etc. as prores files. Now nice that prores can now be red on the pc side easily. However its the 2nd part of the round trip that I am stuck on! Best format to bring back into FCP / Color for final touchups and final output from the time line. Any ideas on Fusion back to FCP maybe with a detour via color?



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christopher sferrazza
Re: Red greenscreen workflow
on Aug 14, 2009 at 4:05:47 pm

Hi -I've had lots of experience with the red camera outdoors and indoors with fantastic results, but now I've been asked to shoot green screen with RED camera. I have had limited experience with green screen over all but have always followed the rules of thumb, long lens, even lighting, etc. In this case the subject simply stands in front of camera as a medium/wide shot. That feels simple enough, but they have also asked to shoot a close up of the actors feet/shoes, my concern being bounce and spill from the green screen. I'll be using ultra-primes, kinos(tung) and an 80D filter. Any advice would be great. Thanks.


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