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RED/Kona/FCP Question

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Jason Flor
RED/Kona/FCP Question
on Apr 28, 2008 at 12:59:17 am

Hi....big changes going on, more stuff to learn. I'm new to both FCP/Mac and RED and I'm a bit confused about ingesting video from the RED Drive for use in FCP.

I have read here that you need a Kona3 card to transfer video from the RED Drive into the Mac. But if I understand the RED user's manual they are saying I just need to plug the RED Drive into a USB or Firewire port and do a drag and drop from the Red Drive onto the storage medium, in my case a Media Vault array.

I think I'm missing something. Where does the Kona 3 card come into the picture?

Thanks in advance
Jas


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gary adcock
Re: RED/Kona/FCP Question
on Apr 28, 2008 at 1:51:38 pm

[Jason Flor] "I have read here that you need a Kona3 card to transfer video from the RED Drive into the Mac."

No that is not correct. The Drive connects vis USB, FW or sata, so the transfer is file based.

"I think I'm missing something. Where does the Kona 3 card come into the picture? "

OUTPUT not Input.....

to fully utilize the RED camera - RED users need the tools that support all of the Formats the camera shoots - so that you output of your content to something like HDCAM SR for delivery- or the power to handle the frame geometry beyond 1920 x 1080 .

Additionally it is nearly impossible to properly grade RED content without viewing it on a proper monitor, and monitors have Single link or better Dual Link HDSDI connections.




gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Jason Flor
Re: RED/Kona/FCP Question
on Apr 28, 2008 at 2:00:12 pm

Thanks Gary, appreciate the info.

Jas



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Stuart Ferreyra
Re: RED/Kona/FCP Question
on Apr 28, 2008 at 11:43:58 pm

Also keep in mind that once the RED footage is in FCP you will only be able to do straight cuts using the R3D codec. If you are planning on editing just like you'd with any othet video format you will first have to convert all the R3D files to the appropriate codec.

Kona 3 will soon be able to give you real-time video output to an SDI or Component monitor but the lack of creative editing decisions with the R3D codec still a compromise.

Stuart Ferreyra
Timecode Multimedia
Colorist / Online Editor
Ph: 310.826.9199
AIM: stuart.colorist
http://www.timecodemultimedia.com

"HD, 2K & RED Post Production for Indies at Affordable Rates"



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Jason Flor
Re: RED/Kona/FCP Question
on Apr 28, 2008 at 11:50:29 pm

Hi Stuart,

"Also keep in mind that once the RED footage is in FCP you will only be able to do straight cuts using the R3D codec. If you are planning on editing just like you'd with any othet video format you will first have to convert all the R3D files to the appropriate codec. "

I knew there had to be a catch..lol. Well of course there is no way I ever do cuts only projects. Mine are fairly EFX heavy. So what would you suggest in regards to coversion? What are other Red/FCP users doing?



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Russell Lasson
Re: RED/Kona/FCP Question
on Apr 29, 2008 at 12:49:17 am

The new Log and Transfer plug in for FCP (beta on RED website) works well. You import the footage to ProRes at 2048x1024. The Kona 3 will allow your sequence to be at 2048x1024 and play out to a 1080p monitor/deck using a crop feature much like the existing feature set for 2k dpx files.

It's really better if you don't edit in REDCODE (proxy files). If you need to render or output to a monitor, ProRes is a much better fit.

Some day down the line, Color will be able to reconnect your sequence back to the R3D files for grading and output to 2K in either DPX, uncompressed or ProRes. But for now, you should look at the Crimson workflow. I haven't tried it yet, but I've heard good things about it.

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Kaleidoscope Pictures
Provo, UT


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Jason Flor
Re: RED/Kona/FCP Question
on Apr 29, 2008 at 1:04:02 am

Hi Russel,
as I'm new to FCP, Kona and Red could you just clarify the sequence for me. Do I input from the RED Drive to the Kona 3 card and covert to Prores as I ingest? Is this a real time process? Do I use the SDI input BNC's on the card and what about the Red DRive outputs? I thought they were just USB and firewire neither of which Kona3 seems to have.

Or is the whole conversion process done inside the Mac Pro after the RED Drive contents have been transferred to my drive array via firewire?



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Russell Lasson
Re: RED/Kona/FCP Question
on Apr 29, 2008 at 1:16:47 am

Very simply stated, you plug the REDDrive into the computer over FireWire800 and copy the files to the computer. When you copy, copy everything over as it is. Don't move things out of folders or rename anything. Just copy it over as it is.

The Kona 3 or any other video card has nothing to do with importing the footage. Once the original footage is copied over, you can use FCP Log and Transfer (with a beta plug in on the RED support website) to convert the R3D (native RED 4K files) to ProRes.

This currently doesn't work with 4K 16x9 files, but I've heard that it will be fixed fairly soon. So right now you'll shoot in 4K 2:1 and the ProRes files will come in at 2K at 2048x1024.

What the Kona 3 allows you to do is play those 2048x1024 files out to an HD monitor in realtime. Other wise, with other cards you have have to set your frame size to 1920x1080 and use RTextreme to play it out (or render). It's possible, but the Kona 3 workflow is very nice.

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Kaleidoscope Pictures
Provo, UT


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Jason Flor
Re: RED/Kona/FCP Question
on Apr 29, 2008 at 1:42:10 am

OK...I understand. As I will also need to input legacy Betacam SD footage into the FCP now and then, I liked the idea of the Kona io HD with it's numerous types of inputs/outputs but I take it the Kona 3 is the better option because I would have to use RTexteme to monitor my output with the Kona io HD?



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Russell Lasson
Re: RED/Kona/FCP Question
on Apr 29, 2008 at 1:54:33 am

That sounds about right.

One great option would be to buy a Kona 3 with an component to SDI adaptor box and an analog to AES audio converter. It will be about the same price as the IOHD, but then you'll have the best of both worlds as it will allow the Kona 3 to digitize in component.

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Kaleidoscope Pictures
Provo, UT


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Jason Flor
Re: RED/Kona/FCP Question
on Apr 29, 2008 at 2:04:18 am

Ok I think I understand the process. Thanks Russel.



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Chris Woods
Re: RED/Kona/FCP Question
on Mar 26, 2009 at 2:45:35 pm

To work with Red footage on FCP do you have to have a Kona card to edit and view footage at compressed and uncompressed. If so, where is the best place to purchase one and a good price. Thanks.


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Russell Lasson
Re: RED/Kona/FCP Question
on Mar 26, 2009 at 3:28:58 pm

[Chris Woods] "To work with Red footage on FCP do you have to have a Kona card"

The only requirement for RED footage is an intel mac.

The advantage the the Kona 3 offers is dealing with the non-standard frame sizes, like 2048 pixels wide instead of 1920. The Kona 3 will allow you to output 2048 to 1920 without any problems.

I would suggest you read a couple of whitepapers:

RED FCS2 Whitepaper

http://www.red.com/downloads/013968e9a41cf7512988da9a92456ff829bb6517/RED%2...

AJA RED Workflow Whitepaper

http://www.aja.com/pdf/support/AJA_whitepaper_Red_workflow.pdf

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Universal Post
Ridgeline Digital Cinema Mastering
Salt Lake City, UT


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Ritesh Krishnamurthy
Re: RED/Kona/FCP Question
on Apr 6, 2009 at 3:43:53 pm

Hi,
We've upgraded (actually leapt) from a Z1U to RED and I am trying to figure out what I need to start using the RED effectively. For editing, we use FCS.

I've read the messages on this thread and it appears that the Kona3 is used to output video to a HD monitor and hence is not required for editing on a Mac Pro.

I read another article (http://library.creativecow.net/articles/meadows_craig/red.php) in this forum, which mentions that they imported content into the FCP timeline using a Kona card.

In another thread on "Kona vs Decklink for RED" (http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/242/1013), Gary talks about the processing capabilities of Kona3.

Hence, I am confused and lost on the Kona cards and their use in editing on FCP. Anyone, please clarify.

Regards,
Ritesh


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Russell Lasson
Re: RED/Kona/FCP Question
on Apr 6, 2009 at 4:03:39 pm

Have you read through the AJA RED Whitepaper?

http://www.aja.com/pdf/support/AJA_whitepaper_Red_workflow.pdf

That's straight from the source.

-Russ

Russell Lasson
Universal Post
Ridgeline Digital Cinema Mastering
Salt Lake City, UT


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gary adcock
Re: RED/Kona/FCP Question
on Apr 6, 2009 at 5:07:46 pm

[Ritesh Krishnamurthy] "Hence, I am confused and lost on the Kona cards and their use in editing on FCP. Anyone, please clarify. "

Ritesh,

Video cards like the Kona are used to allow you to output to professional decks and monitors, if you plan to deliver content professionally, you need to Monitor, color correct and output via HDSDI to these devices. it allows you to downconvert from 2K direct to SD if you need and it handles the 2K > 1080 output both in realtime.( you hit play and it works).

I will also say that the jump from a video camera like the Z1 to RED is a fairly large jump, RED is a digital cinema camera not a video camera and you will need to take additional care in your workflow.





gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php




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Ritesh Krishnamurthy
Re: RED/Kona/FCP Question
on Apr 8, 2009 at 8:14:31 pm

Hi,
I've read the AJA paper, and I think I understand the three different workflows. It has taken me a while to understand the purpose of the Kona / BMD cards and referencing monitors. The Z1 enables us to transfer edited content back to the Mini DV tapes and have it downconverted or CC-ed in a different studio. That might be a challenge in the RED. As I understand it, with the RED, we will have to do the following:

1. Viewing the edited content in a different format (HD/SD etc)
2. Converting the edited content into the format of the customer / broadcast station
3. Color correction

For this we will need one of the cards and a HD referencing monitors. I am learning the ropes on the technology and am unsure between the Kona 3, MXO2 or HD Link Extreme, and perhaps consider an Apple display or Dell WFP 2408 for viewing.

Any suggestions or advice would be helpful.

Thanks,
ritesh


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