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I'm don't know much and have some questions.

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Rob Grauert
I'm don't know much and have some questions.
on Apr 15, 2008 at 1:32:06 am

Hey guys,

I just have some question about RED. I'm only in school and haven't really heard much or read much about RED until today.I was under the impression that this is just like any HD camera but records 2K and 4K resolutions. I was reading some threads and I read some things that surprised me:

I read something about you need film lenses (rather than video lenses). What's the difference? I just thought those who shoot film just have lenses with really good glass. Being a video student, I've been told that companies like Fujinon, Ziess, Canon, and some other companies make good lenses. But is that just for video? You wouldn't use those lenses on this camera?

Also, I read someone say that you need to pull focus. Is that when you measure the distance of your subject from the lens and set the focus? Why can't you just zoom in and look at your monitor?

I also read about transferring to film. Do you have to transfer to film? I would just bring it into Final Cut and then burn to Blu-Ray or compress for the internet.

And I heard or read somewhere that you're eye doesn't even notice a difference after a 1080p resolution and higher. So why get a 2K or 4K camera.

Will this help make my YouTube videos look better?! Haha...just kidding.

Like I said, I'm just a video student. Please pardon my ignorance to this camera which seems to me is geared toward those experienced with film.


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Gary Morris McBeath
Re: I'm don't know much and have some questions.
on Apr 15, 2008 at 4:08:52 am

Hi Rob,

I'm not a RED owner, but I think I can help you with some of your questions. By no means a complete discourse, but enough to wet your whistle:

Regarding the lenses: "film" lenses are often made for the larger 35mm film frame size, so they will work with the 35mm sized 16x9 sensor in the RED. A typical eng video lens is made for the smaller sensor sizes, typically 2/3" in the higher end cameras, and 1/3" to 1/2" in the prosumer types. A lens will have a circular area within which it will focus properly, the outside edge of which is typically referred to as the circle of confusion. So, in order to have the circle big enough for the 35mm sensor to fall within that circle, you would have to use a lens specifically made for that size of sensor.

I believe the RED One is made to be able to shoot a smaller frame size, like 2K, (an area in the center of the sensor) and a 16mm size lens can be used for that. The Red.com website has quite a lot of info on this subject.

Also, within the use of the term "film lens" is another type of lens called a "prime" lens, that is, a lens with a single focal length, as opposed to a zoom lens, which has the ability to "zoom" from wide angle to telephoto. Most video, eng type lenses are zooms, although there are also primes available for the high end cams. Most film work is done with primes, or limited range zooms, resulting in a better quality picture.

Pulling focus usually means following your subject and keeping it in focus as it moves toward or away from the camera. Focusing HD is much more difficult and critical than SD, and focusing 4K is even more so. Again, in the film industry, "pulling focus" usually means a camera assistant whose job it is to do that while the camera operator does the rest. Nearly impossible for the camera operator to do by him/herself and get consistent results, unless the subject is stationary. Then your method would work.

You don't have to transfer to film, it's just often done for feature/indie work, since the majority of distribution in theatres is still film prints. 4K is closer to film resolution, so you will get a better film print.

I can see the difference in 4K vs 2K. And 4K will look better on a large screen. Even when down-sampled from 4K to 2K or to HD, if it's done right, you will end up with a much better picture if "oversampled" in the original acquisition. Just watch a high quality feature film on your TV; it will look much better than something shot in the same resolution as your TV.

Hope this gets you started. Buy lots of books and read, read, read about film and video. Troll the Cow. Visit the vendors websites. Visit tradeshows, like NAB going on this week. Buy a prosumer camera and go out and film the world. Then come home and look at your work. Again and again. Learn to light. A picture is best defined not by what is lit, but by what is not. Experience.

Good Luck

Gary




Gary Morris McBeath
SaltAire Cinema Productions


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Rob Grauert
Re: I'm don't know much and have some questions.
on Apr 15, 2008 at 7:17:38 pm

Wow. Thanks for the in-depth explanation. I actually knew what "pulling focus" is, I just always heard it referred as "follow focus." It's all good.

I actually do have a prosumer camcorder, shoot a lot, and read a lot. I was just curious about the RED and things are much clear now. I doubt I will ever need this camera; however, it's good to know what the difference is now.

Thank you



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Gary Morris McBeath
Re: I'm don't know much and have some questions.
on Apr 15, 2008 at 8:36:17 pm

You're welcome.

Follow focus: noun. Pulling focus: verb.

Maybe the gurus with their pictures above this forum get back from NAB (I'm guessing they are there, having more fun than me), they will have something to add. They have a lot more experience than I do. Even though I'm older.

Gary

Gary Morris McBeath
SaltAire Cinema Productions


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Ben Holmes
Re: I'm don't know much and have some questions.
on Apr 16, 2008 at 11:34:19 pm

Very helpful post Gary for a student - well done, it's what the Cow's about.

Rob may want to look at the new Scarlet RED camera, which at less than 3000 dollars may be in the hands of film students everywhere next year....

RED is a game-changing camera which produces amazing images. the 35mm sensor allows images to be shot with film depth of field, at amazing quality. I have just completed a project mastered at 1080p from 4K RED footage, and it's amazingly just how much better it looks than footage from high-end video cameras, even ones fitted with 35mm adaptors. The RAW footage it shoots can be graded in ways video guys only dream about...

I don't think film students are the only ones struggling to keep up with this new technology either!

Ben



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Rob Grauert
Re: I'm don't know much and have some questions.
on Apr 17, 2008 at 12:05:49 am

haha. trust me. I saw the Scarlet and would love to have it. $3000 made me thing "I'm definitely getting that." Then I looked at the cost of the lenses and said, "Oh wait, no I'm not :( "

Im very ambitious. And if I had money, I would probably drop out of school (i actually feel it holds me back, it's been a while since i've really learned something in school.) and buy a camera like this. I love documentary style video, and even though RED cameras seem aimed toward those who make feature films, I feel I could make it work with a documentary as well.




Robert J. Grauert, Jr.


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Michael Hancock
Re: I'm don't know much and have some questions.
on Apr 17, 2008 at 2:08:19 am

[Rob Grauert] "I saw the Scarlet and would love to have it. $3000 made me thing "I'm definitely getting that." Then I looked at the cost of the lenses and said, "Oh wait, no I'm not :( ""

Look at the Scarlet again--fixed lense. You'll spend the lense money on accessories--batteries, memory cards, handles, matte box, etc...

Michael.



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Rob Grauert
Re: I'm don't know much and have some questions.
on Apr 17, 2008 at 3:07:25 am

oooh....you don't have to get one of those sweet lenses? It works without them? I may just look into this more then. hmm....

Robert J. Grauert, Jr.


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Ben Holmes
Re: I'm don't know much and have some questions.
on Apr 17, 2008 at 9:50:01 am

You'll probably have to budget $6000 minimum to include batteries, CF cards, etc. etc. It's still incredible value though - and I would expect RED to keep accessory costs down wherever possible.

Ben



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Sam Roberts
Re: I'm don't know much and have some questions.
on Apr 25, 2008 at 12:02:15 am

How about high end 35mm still camera lenses (Canon, Nikon) can they be used with RED?



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