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The End of the Word as We Know It...

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Leo Ticheli
The End of the Word as We Know It...
on Mar 26, 2008 at 10:03:54 pm

I think you guys know me pretty well by now; I'm a straight shooter. I've never gone near the Cool Aid.

Take this as friendly advice or a warning. Nothing in our business is ever going to be the same again. You can join the revolution or watch it pass you by.

Our Red camera arrived this morning and we promptly built it out as a studio rig; massive Cooke 18-100 zoom, Arri Matte Box 14, Arri Follow Focus FF4, Element Technica Base Plate, Top Plate, and ET Ultra Rods, Red Cradle with Red Drives & Anton Bauer 140 Battery, and ET Video Breakout Box.

I'll be posting more complete results as time allows, but my first shots, both in studio and exteriors, are the highest quality, most breathtaking images I've ever shot. Period. Start grading in RedCine and you risk divorce; you don't want to stop looking at the displays.

It's probably going to take me a month or perhaps longer to have enough to share; we're doing a book of the still frames, a couple of commercials, and a short historical fiction film to showcase the Red system.

This is the end of day one; anything can happen, but as of today I don't ever want to shoot anything else again. Anyone interested in a hot deal on a couple of VariCams?

Guys, this is for real.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo








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Nick Gardner
Re: The End of the Word as We Know It...
on Mar 26, 2008 at 10:35:49 pm



Hi Leo,


I had the opportunity to borrow a Red for a day to test the work flow, and just play around with it, and I must say I agree with you. I can't wait for mine to show up. It is really stunning.

Have fun,

Nick



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Leo Ticheli
Re: The End of the WORLD as We Know It...
on Mar 27, 2008 at 12:16:08 am

And furthermore...

I'm so shell-shocked and exhausted from working with the Red today I can't even type correctly!

A couple more thoughts:

Studio rigged with a monster 35MM zoom, the Red is a VERY heavy MFer. Those with small crews or unaccustomed or lugging a big 35MM around should really consider a lighter weight lens. I'm not kidding, guys. It's much heaver than a fully ticked out VariCam.

The Red camera is an order of magnitude easier to setup than something like an F900 or VariCam with their complicated, highly interconnected menu settings. Establishing a look on these cameras requires expert help and hours to accomplish.

Because the Red camera is shooting Raw, you really don't have to do much at all in the camera. Some of you may recall my lengthy posts on controlling depth of field with 2/3" HD cameras. That's over. Done. Red has same depth of field as a Super 35MM film camera and there's really no substitute for the real thing, the subject isolation is dramatic and so easy.

I was expecting the Red LCD to be a bit of a disappointment. Wrong. It's bright and color accurate. Brilliant.

In general the camera seems remarkably well built; sort of tank but with pleasing lines. We loaded the latest Beta software, Build 15 and found no glitches at all. I'm sure we haven't drilled down far enough yet, but the camera recorded at frame rates from 1 to 120 fps and played back from both CF cards and Red Drives with no issues whatsoever.

My colleagues, the bloody thing works.

Enough for now...

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

"How are you going to keep them down on the farm after they've seen Paris..."










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Chris Bell
Re: The End of the WORLD as We Know It...
on Mar 27, 2008 at 8:16:22 am

I have to agree with Leo. I have been very pleased with the results from my Red. I have been shooting with my Zeiss T2.1 primes, and Angeniuex 25-250 HR. Yes it is very much like shooting film. The camera is bigger than video, yet simple to work with. I find the latitude amazing and the images remind me much more of film than digital video. There is a real organic quality.

I too was very skeptical of the whole Red thing. I don't think it's totally dialed in yet... I still can't get Red CIne to work... All I get are frozen images. Red Alert works great, however. In time the software bugs will be worked out as will a more sensible workflow.

Somebody pass the coolaid.

Chris Bell
http://www.christopher-bell.com

PS: Leo, if you think the Red LCD looks good, wait for the EVF.



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Leo Ticheli
Re: The End of the WORLD as We Know It...
on Mar 27, 2008 at 11:34:14 am

Hi Chris,

Please send a couple of shots to us and I'll try them on RedCine here; that way we can determine if the problem is within your camera or the configuration of your Mac. We've had an a crash or two but RedCine is working for us.

We jumped in and loaded the latest Beta software, Build 15 in the camera and latest version of RedCine in a new 8-core with 16GB RAM.

I have the EVF on order, but we're number 1129 and I hear they are delivering only in the second hundred, so I may be waiting a while.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo








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gary adcock
Re: The End of the WORLD as We Know It...
on Mar 27, 2008 at 12:41:14 pm

Leo

welcome to the club, isn't it amazing to see REAL HD????

I think that some of the biggest issues relating to workflow will start falling into place now the that cameras are reaching out beyond the first few systems. The Workflow does need help if your not doing conversion to Dpx files, since currently only Scratch can directly finish from camera originals ( Scratch is only a finishing tool by the way)

and I agree it is quite hefty with the number of accessories.

HOWEVER....

Build 15 NO issues ?? you did not shoot in 4K 16x9 - the camera is currently NOT properly recording that format nor can the files be read on a mac.( they crash my QT every time)

and I agree with Chris - the EVF is Awesome I got a chance to see one last week on RED #9 and Fletcher in Chicago got theirs yesterday.




gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Leo Ticheli
Re: The End of the WORLD as We Know It...
on Mar 27, 2008 at 12:57:31 pm

Hi Gary,

My observations are based on a single day's experiments, so I've not completely wrung out the camera.

We've tried many, but certainly not all, the project settings; very happy with the 4K 2:1 and, most surprisingly, the 2K settings. A note of heresy; I'm very seriously considering getting something like a Cooke 9-50 and shooting 2K windowed for jobs that would have gone to VariCam!!! Things where we need more depth of field and a light-weight package.

I still believe that cameras like the VariCam are a better choice for run & gun, but I don't do that stuff; my company does some of it, but we use other staff to do those jobs.

When the "giddy" wears off I may be a bit more rational, but no amount of just looking at other's footage can compare with actually shooting your own stuff.

How long will this super-charged adrenalin rush last?

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo



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gary adcock
Re: The End of the WORLD as We Know It...
on Mar 27, 2008 at 2:22:25 pm

[Leo Ticheli] "When the "giddy" wears off I may be a bit more rational, but no amount of just looking at other's footage can compare with actually shooting your own stuff. "

Go for it Leo, funny thing is the more I work with the camera and workflow the more comfortable it gets.

My recommendation for the post workflow if you do not have access to Scratch is to work with 2K DPX, with the Glue Tools plug in. It takes all of the hassle out of the process.




gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD




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Chris Bell
Re: The End of the WORLD as We Know It...
on Mar 27, 2008 at 2:40:52 pm

Gary,

Is this a better workflow than ProRes HQ? I've been using Red Alert to convert and the results are great. When Red Cine worked, I was not all that pleased with the rendered file. They looked dark and noisy.

Leo,

I am having the same problem with Red CIne that many report on the Red User Forum. I either get a frozen frame or the exported file will freeze half way through. I am using a 3.2 dual 8 core with 8 gigs of Ram. Build 15, 2:1 4K/3K/2K

I don't think it is the camera as I get great results from Red Alert.

Chris Bell



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Nick Gardner
Re: The End of the WORLD as We Know It...
on Mar 27, 2008 at 10:03:23 pm



Red cine really doesn't like any other apps open, and don't pile on too many shots at once. Trash your preferences and that should unfreeze frameify redcine.

Also, the H proxies look really god damn good. They work great and looking at them on a 17" panasonic, and a 17" CRT via HDSDI they look way better than any Varicam footage, no banding, or other artifacts, and super sharp.

Nick



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Leo Ticheli
Re: The End of the WORLD as We Know It...
on Mar 27, 2008 at 10:12:19 pm

It's so true, Nick.

By the way, there's a little free application called, "Reset RedCine," that works wonders.

I'm still high.

I'll tell you how this feels; remember your first telecine session, when your very first roll of 35MM film flew up in front of your eyes? Well, Red is even better than that.

I don't want to go home. I want to stay in the studio.

Sigh.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo



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cow
Jerry Hofmann
Re: The End of the WORLD as We Know It...
on Mar 28, 2008 at 2:14:37 am

I'm late to the party here I know. I sort of didn't have a contribution to make until I'd posted or shot with a RED. We'll I've posted a couple of shows now and have to say... Wait for it... it competes with 35mm... absolutely. It even takes on the must of having to grade it. Color and RED love each other lots. RED Cine's documentation is scant, but it can be made to work. Just don't go into Leopard and QT 7.4.1... that would be a no no.

FWIW, Check your version of QT. Red Cine doesn't like much past QT 7.3.1. OK on 10.4.10 or probably .11, but I've not tried it there.

Our camera arrives in the next batch anyway... But posting footage shot by about 12-15 different shooters was interesting. And I LOVE what you can do to the RAW pictures.. amazin'. Much like 35 in a telecine room... just CAN'T do that with video. it's magic... I'll never want to shoot or edit camera processed video again. (course that is a bit of a pipe dream) RAW is where it's at for sure. Check out Apple's QT HD gallery.. I did the RED stream there.. from ingest to export it's going to get easier, but right now, it's a bit of a pain. It will get better though. Scarlet will be driving that horse hard I'll wager. All you really have to do is look at the players...

We be needing faster computers, and 4k monitors before ya know it. We are going to be processing a lot of files guys. But it's worth the time, the images are astounding even in 2k, let alone 4k.

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer

Author: "Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4" Click here

Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D


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Nate Weaver
Re: The End of the WORLD as We Know It...
on Mar 29, 2008 at 4:35:13 am

[Jerry Hofmann] "Just don't go into Leopard and QT 7.4.1... that would be a no no"

Actually, it's "don't go into TIGER, and 7.4.1". Red footage is fine with 10.5 and 7.4.X, been doing it for weeks.

On the greater note, I would like to take the opportunity to second Leo's assessment. It really is a giant step forward, even if it's got some big warts at the moment. I've shot two jobs with it so far, and it was good enough to get the job done and then some.

The last job was a greenscreen shoot for a show open (Shear Genius second season, if anybody cares). Build 15 did crash once, and then on reboot it screwed up again. Second reboot "took" and we were ok rest of the day.

The long boot time came close to biting us, we took downtime waiting for Jacylyn Smith to show up, and when she finally did, I had to inform the AD that we would be waiting for another 2 minutes. They wound up waiting for only maybe 30 seconds, but it kinda stunk that everybody was waiting on my dept.

Since this was for a motion graphics job, the production company is loving the extra resolution for frame repositioning...even on a job that delivers HDCAM. It's safe to say the camera will be their first choice in the future, even just for that aspect!

Nate Weaver
Director/D.P., Los Angeles
http://www.nateweaver.net


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Steve Wargo
Re: The End of the WORLD as We Know It...
on Mar 29, 2008 at 6:34:16 am

[Leo Ticheli] "I don't want to go home. I want to stay in the studio. "

Don't forget to take your heart medicine, and... how are you getting anything done if you're on the computer every 15 minutes? Or, are these coming from your Blackberry.

Have you peed your pants yet?


So, I knew that when Leo got his that we'd get truthful notes but I didn't expect a blow by blow. Well, maybe I did.



Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .


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Graeme Nattress
Re: The End of the WORLD as We Know It...
on Mar 28, 2008 at 2:54:20 pm

Thanks for the feedback. 4k 16:9 is being worked on as we speak, and should be ready soon. There's a lot of engineering working going on, and the fruits of that will be soon upon us.

Glad you're enjoying the camera Leo.

Graeme

- http://www.nattress.com - Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP


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