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Print Dimensions for Red Epic frame

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Brandon Wilson
Print Dimensions for Red Epic frame
on May 27, 2013 at 12:30:31 am

Hey Folks- first time CreativeCow user here. Pleased to meet you.

In a nutshell, what's the maximum PRINT dimensions a Red Epic video frame is capable of at 300dpi?

I have a client who wants a movie poster made using a video frame shot on the Red Epic. I'm very unfamiliar with Red workflows in general, but I figured out a way to create TIFF and PNG's from the provided r3d brought into Adobe Speedgrade. But standard movie posters are 27x40, which even for the Epic's 4096x2160 dimensions is still pretty massive when trying to print at 300dpi.
Is this even possible? What kind of compromises am I facing with print size and quality?

Thanks!


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Colin Hubick
Re: Print Dimensions for Red Epic frame
on May 27, 2013 at 5:49:55 pm

Hi Brandon,

I have had some single frames from both Red One and Epic used in print situations, and the best advice I can give is to load the .r3d file into the latest version of Red Cine, and output a the single frame as an uncompressed TIFF, then load that file into Lightroom or Photoshop to continue your workflow.

When you load the TIFF into Lightroom you will notice that the sharpen slider is at zero compared to any DSLR that would have a value somewhere between 25 - 50. This is due to the fact that the Epic does not apply any sharpening what so ever compared to other cameras.

I have had excellent results printing these images all the way from 8x10 to billboard sizes!

Below are some examples of stills that I pulled from a recent fashion gig I did. My intent was primarily motion, but I was able to grab over 800 high quality stills from the motion content. The client liked the surprise of being able to provide stills as well!

Good Luck!
Colin











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Brandon Wilson
Re: Print Dimensions for Red Epic frame
on May 27, 2013 at 9:20:17 pm

Really nice shots there, Colin. I'm particularly impressed with how sharp the focus is for a video frame. Thanks for your quick reply. I'll mess around with a few TIFF's in photoshop and see what I come up with print-wise.


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Angelo Lorenzo
Re: Print Dimensions for Red Epic frame
on May 27, 2013 at 6:00:32 pm

Talk to your printer, most film posters aren't going to be 300ppi. If they are, then it's usually a hybrid where the image is upscaled and then the text is prepared at full resolution.

--------------------
Angelo Lorenzo

Need to encode ProRes on your Windows PC?
Introducing ProRes Helper, an awesome little app that makes it possible
Fallen Empire Digital Production Services - Los Angeles
RED transcoding, on-set DIT, and RED Epic rental services
Fallen Empire - The Blog
A blog dedicated to filmmaking, the RED workflow, and DIT tips and tricks
Can your post production question fit in a tweet? Follow me on Twitter


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Brandon Wilson
Re: Print Dimensions for Red Epic frame
on May 27, 2013 at 10:27:47 pm

Thanks for your reply, Angelo. It's a good point you bring up that posters don't always print in 300ppi. I've read a few threads that explain that there isn't a universal printing code when dealing with posters. I'll have to find out the print standards from my client's print shop.

I've also had to read a few articles and threads that explain the differences between ppi and dpi, to which I'm now experiencing a bit of a headache.

Maybe this is where my confusion is coming from: If 150-300 is what arguably constitutes the range of exceptional print quality, how can a video frame's limitation of strictly 72ppi provide for an adequate print?

Thanks for your patience. I really want to understand this, but its just not clicking.


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Angelo Lorenzo
Re: Print Dimensions for Red Epic frame
on May 28, 2013 at 3:54:25 am

Screen DPI, 72DPI in this instance, doesn't mean a thing. Monitors are fixed density and, to satisfy curiosity, usually near 100dpi.

If I were to show you a 1000x1000 pixel image right now set to 72dpi and 300dpi, both would appear the same size on your screen. The difference would be in a variable output environment like printing.

A 300dpi 27x40 file is 8100x12000 pixels. I would, basically, blow up your RED image by 300-400% to satisfy requirements. Granted, you're filling pixels to fill the printing requirement but you aren't creating detail. This also allows you to have the text at 300dpi in terms of quality so that's nice and crisp.

To put it into perspective, I have a still in Photoshop open from a P45 digital medium format camera back and it's only ~7100x5400. You can't avoid upscaling if 300dpi is your target spec.

--------------------
Angelo Lorenzo

Need to encode ProRes on your Windows PC?
Introducing ProRes Helper, an awesome little app that makes it possible
Fallen Empire Digital Production Services - Los Angeles
RED transcoding, on-set DIT, and RED Epic rental services
Fallen Empire - The Blog
A blog dedicated to filmmaking, the RED workflow, and DIT tips and tricks
Can your post production question fit in a tweet? Follow me on Twitter


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David Battistella
Re: Print Dimensions for Red Epic frame
on May 28, 2013 at 11:08:57 am

Adobe photoshop can read r3d files.

Here is a workflow I use often so that I can open the R3D directly in Photoshop.
You have to have the adobe plugin installed from RED.com

1. Take r3d Snapshots of the frames you like.
2. open the r3d in Photoshop and set the ISO, etc with the REDCINE style tools.
3. Immediately make the files DPI 300
4. Work on the image using your favorite photoshop tools.
5. Save to Jpeg, .tiff, or what ever format you can save to in Photoshop.

I think this is the cleanest workflow as creating tiffs in REDCINE X, can introduce a little bot of artifacting depending on how you process the file and which export preset you want to use.

This said I have created dozens of prints from R3D up to 40x60cm with a very high print quality through this pipeline. .

Cheers,

David

______________________________

http://www.davidbattistella.com



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Colin Hubick
Re: Print Dimensions for Red Epic frame
on May 29, 2013 at 3:57:24 am

Hi David,

Curios about the types of artifacts that you saw outputting TIFFs and what settings were in place that caused them?

thanks!
Colin


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David Battistella
Re: Print Dimensions for Red Epic frame
on May 29, 2013 at 9:45:38 pm

Hi Colin,

It's mostly just sharpness depending on what type of sharpening you pic in the software scaling in the output framing of the options tab.

I find also that if the detail and sharpening are turned on in REDCINE-X you can get some ugly pixels, if everything is not set just right.

This is why I opt for the R3D snapshots in Photoshop as you kind of avoid a processing step.

I'll qualify all of this by stating that TIFF's are very reliable form of image export from REDCINE-X and I have rarely if ever had major problems exporting tiff files, but I just hit the safe side and use the r3d snapshots.

David

______________________________

http://www.davidbattistella.com



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Colin Hubick
Re: Print Dimensions for Red Epic frame
on May 30, 2013 at 6:20:27 pm

Thanks David, I appreciate the reply!

I love the idea of being able to work with the native r3d as stills, but much prefer the Lightroom workflow. If only Adobe would put out an update to recognize a single frame .r3d as a still and not video!

cheers
Colin


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