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REDCINE-X + FCP + Color

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Rory ORear
REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Apr 4, 2012 at 1:18:16 am

I'm having about ten different problems right (mild exaggeration alert).

Here is what I did: created Apple ProRes 422 proxies to edit my 4k RAW RED footage in FCP7. Finished my edit, then exported both an EDL and an XML.

Downloaded the FCP Studio Red Support Plug In. Attempted to open the EDL in Color: it crashes every time (have tried this on multiple different machines with the same result).

So...I opened the EDL in RedCineX. It was able to re-link all of my proxies with R3D files. However, when I go to export an XML it crashes. I tried another computer and it was able to export an XML, but COLOR crashed when I tried to import that.

Honestly, I've read a few different ways of doing this, but I cannot seem to find a step by step walkthrough of how to grade 4K in Color.

A couple of things: my timeline contains 4K, 2K and a couple of pickup shots from a Canon 5D. Could that be what's causing it to crash? (seems unlikely, as Color usually just disregards elements it doesn't support)

I'm sorry if this has been posted before, but I couldn't find anything on it in the forums.


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David Battistella
Re: REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Apr 4, 2012 at 9:00:20 am

I would conform the project in FCP, make sure all of the media is online and then use the

SEND TO COLOR command to send the project to COLOR.

David

______________________________
The shortest answer is doing.
Lord Herbert
http://vimeo.com/battistella



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Rory ORear
Re: REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Apr 4, 2012 at 9:10:46 am

Yes, that would be the normal route if I were working with 1k files, but the footage I am working with in FCP is ProRes 422 proxies of 4K files. That would only send the proxies to Color. I need to be grading the 4K RAW files.


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Alex Elkins
Re: REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Apr 4, 2012 at 10:55:02 am

What David means is conform in FCP back to the raw files.


In RedCine-X you need to export your timeline using the 'QuickTime Wrapper' export setting. When you set it up you can tell it to generate an XML that links to the raw proxy files. Import that XML into FCP and send to Color and you'll be grading the R3D files.

Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
Post Blue showreel
Latest work: Greyhounds in Motion at 500fps
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Alex Elkins
Re: REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Apr 4, 2012 at 11:06:47 am

The process for conforming a Final Cut Pro offline back to R3D files for grading in Apple Color is as follows:

1. Export XML from Final Cut Pro of your finished offline edit.

2. Import that XML into RedCine-X Professional. RCX-Pro will ask you where the raw files are, so just point it in the right direction and it will then automatically relink to the raw files.

3. In the Export tab set up a 'QuickTime Wrapper' export preset in RCX-Pro (see screenshot below).



4. Remember to select 'Timeline (all clips)' then click 'Export'. This will be a very quick process, and will result in a folder full of QuickTime R3D proxy files plus a new XML.

5. Import the new XML into FCP.

6. Send to Color.

Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
Post Blue showreel
Latest work: Greyhounds in Motion at 500fps
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David Battistella
Re: REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Apr 4, 2012 at 1:44:01 pm

You will also have to relink all the "non RED" material manually.

Follow the steps above.

David

______________________________
The shortest answer is doing.
Lord Herbert
http://vimeo.com/battistella



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Alex Elkins
Re: REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Apr 4, 2012 at 1:56:18 pm

[David Battistella] "You will also have to relink all the "non RED" material manually"

Ah yes, well pointed out. I forgot there was material from another camera.

Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
Post Blue showreel
Latest work: Greyhounds in Motion at 500fps
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Rory ORear
Re: REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Apr 4, 2012 at 5:19:24 pm

Thanks for the feedback!

So, the problem I am now having is when I open the XML in Redcine it does not retain the correct in/out points for any of the clips (as in they start and end much earlier or later than they should).


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Rory ORear
Re: REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Apr 4, 2012 at 5:23:54 pm

Also, RCX now crashes when I export the QT wrappers/XML.


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Rory ORear
Re: REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Apr 4, 2012 at 5:45:37 pm

Ok scratch that; downloaded the latest build of Redcine, and now it is fine. The only thing is when I send to color from FCP all of the options in the RED tab are greyed out, suggesting to me that it did not recognize them as RED files.

Thanks so much for all the help so far! I feel like I am almost there...(fingers crossed)


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Alex Elkins
Re: REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Apr 5, 2012 at 1:32:38 pm

Sounds like you may not have installed the latest Final Cut Studio plugin from RED. go to http://www.red.com/support and grab it from there.

Any luck?

Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
Post Blue showreel
Latest work: Greyhounds in Motion at 500fps
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Alex Elkins
Re: REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Apr 5, 2012 at 1:35:21 pm

Sorry, just re-read your original post and you've already stated you installed the FCS plugin.

As a test, try creating a new sequence and copy just one of your R3D files into that sequence. Send it to Color and see if the R3D tab is still greyed out...


What I'm getting at is there might be a problem with having the non-R3D material in the same timeline. Bit of a long shot but you never know.

Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
Post Blue showreel
Latest work: Greyhounds in Motion at 500fps
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tyler Granlund
Re: REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Jul 12, 2012 at 4:11:06 pm

Im doing this exact process and about half of my media relinking to the incorrect in's/outs in the XML. It's really frustrating, the clips are reconnecting to the correct media as far as I can tell but the XML generated by REDCINE X is having some of the clips IN's and OUT's be off by about 15 seconds.

It is really frustrating that it is not ALL of the clips doing this, I really would like to avoid manually slipping every clip into place.

Any suggestions?


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David Battistella
Re: REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Jul 12, 2012 at 5:12:11 pm

Why are you generating the XML from RCX?

You really should:

1. Generate an XML from FCP
2. Run conform on XML with Clipfinder.
3. Generate a new XML from Clipfinder
4. Open the XML in Color
5. Close color project
6. Run Fix looping bug in Clipfinder
7. Open the project in Color and grade.

OR

1. Generate an XML from FCP
2. Run conform on XML with Clipfinder.
3. Generate a new XML from Clipfinder
4. Open the NEW XML in FCP
5. Set the sequence size to 2048x1024
6. Make sure the media is relinked to the R3D's
7. Use SEND TO COLOR from FCP.
8. Grade in Color.

The looping Bug is when you use multiple clips from the R3D file. Color projects had some kind of problem reading those spanned R3D's. The color looping bug fixer is part of Clipfinder.

David

______________________________
The shortest answer is doing.
Lord Herbert
http://www.davidbattistella.com



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tyler Granlund
Re: REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Jul 12, 2012 at 5:18:03 pm

This is my first RED project and I was just following the workflow outlined here.

I tried to download clipfinder and the site said development is suspended and to use REDCINE-X

http://www.daun.ch/hamingja/


Anyone know of a place I can get clipfinder? It seems the site doesn't allow you to download it anymore.


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Rory ORear
Re: EDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Jul 12, 2012 at 7:26:32 pm

You don't need clip finder. If you follow Alex Elkin's above instructions you shouldn't have a problem. Just make sure you have the very latest build of RCXP. And be prepared to have to manually relink your shots in color to your RAW footage. I had the exact same problem as you and this worked for me.


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Mohammed Al-Mezil
Re: EDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Nov 20, 2012 at 8:46:10 pm

So ive been following what youre all discussing step by step and facing the same problems in the same sequence of yours and getting the solution also from here. its been alot of help for me so thank you guys.

Now i only want to clarify the scenario of the process and please correct me if im wrong in any step.

After generating the XML from redcine to finalcut i should send it to color, grade it, render it, send it back to finalcut, then export the final last export from finalcut ? is that the right sequence ?

and in the end what would be the maximum resolution of the movie if i were using a 5k RAW R3D material ? will it be exported from the final cut as 5k or will it be less ?

and if it will be less is there any way else to export with 5k resolution ?

another question is when i export the XML from offline files of finalcut to redcine .. it loses all the transitions and effects .. is this normal ? and is there a way to retrieve these transitions and effects automatically to all of the clips ?

what do you suggest ?

thanks alot


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Alex Elkins
Re: EDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Nov 21, 2012 at 12:30:49 pm

Hi Mohammed,

It sounds like you're on the right track with it all, but let me answer your questions with a bit of detail just so you know you've got things covered.

[Mohammed Al-Mezil] "After generating the XML from redcine to finalcut i should send it to color, grade it, render it, send it back to finalcut, then export the final last export from finalcut ? is that the right sequence ?"

Sounds fine - remember to set your Color project up with the dimensions that you intend to deliver in, i.e. 4K, 2K or HD, and set your render format as ProRes 4444 (or ProRes 422 HQ if delivering for HDTV - 4444 is overkill). See my final paragraph about transitions before doing this though...



[Mohammed Al-Mezil] "in the end what would be the maximum resolution of the movie if i were using a 5k RAW R3D material ? will it be exported from the final cut as 5k or will it be less ?"

Color will only go up to 4K. You can import 4K ProRes files into Final Cut Pro but any larger and you may find that it crashes during the export, so 5K isn't an option. Don't worry though. This is currently very common and perfectly acceptable to shoot 5K for a 4K delivery. Peter Jackson is doing it with The Hobbit, so you'll be fine. Shooting 5K for 4K delivery allows you to either re-frame without losing resolution OR scale the full frame 5K down for a really crisp image. Feel free to mix and match those two options within the project to suit each shot.



[Mohammed Al-Mezil] "and if it will be less is there any way else to export with 5k resolution ?"

In theory you could render out 5K DPX files from RedCine-X rather than conforming with FCP, but then you'd need to take it to a post facility that has the ability to grade in 5K, which at the moment is pretty much non-existent. After Effects would handle it, but then you're having to grade in After Effects, which I wouldn't wish upon anyone. As above, I recommend you scale down to 4K. No cinema will ever project 5K, so 4K is the highest resolution you'll ever need to deliver anyway. The ability to re-frame without quality loss is a blessing.



[Mohammed Al-Mezil] "when i export the XML from offline files of finalcut to redcine .. it loses all the transitions and effects .. is this normal"

Yes. I haven't checked, but it wouldn't surprise me if RedCine-X maintained cross dissolves through the XML exchange. You never know...


[Mohammed Al-Mezil] "and is there a way to retrieve these transitions and effects automatically to all of the clips ?"

Automatically... I don't think so, but it shouldn't take too long to drag and drop transitions from the offline clips onto the R3D proxies. MAKE SURE YOU DO THIS BEFORE SENDING TO COLOR - if not, Color won't know that you need handles on some of your clips.

Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
Post Blue showreel
Latest work: Greyhounds in Motion at 500fps
My Vimeo Pro page


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Thomas Frank
Re: REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Dec 17, 2012 at 11:46:29 am

[David Battistella] "Why are you generating the XML from RCX?"

What if you don't have ClipFinder which cost Money and it EOL.
RedCine X is free and stil downloadable.



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Denis Khodyrev
REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Nov 27, 2012 at 7:20:53 am

I have found a solution of reconnection the RED-files with resolution 5K in FInal Cut.
As it has been shown above I did the next:

1. Export XML from Final Cut Pro of your finished offline edit.

2. Import that XML into RedCine-X Professional. RCX-Pro will ask you where the raw files are, so just point it in the right direction and it will then automatically relink to the raw files.

3. In the Export tab set up a 'QuickTime Wrapper' export preset in RCX-Pro.

I needed full quality of RED-files so I renamed files resulted from Wrapper export with automator (Let's say that file's name was A001_C020_0814EQ_F , I renamed it to A001_C020_0814EQ)

Then I made a sequence of Final Cut offline and did reconnect to these new files.As a result I found that I connected my sequence to original RED-files).

SIncerely yours,Denis.

P.S Thanks a lot for you topic and answers.


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Alex Elkins
Re: REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Nov 28, 2012 at 5:59:09 pm

[Denis Khodyrev] "3. In the Export tab set up a 'QuickTime Wrapper' export preset in RCX-Pro.

I needed full quality of RED-files so I renamed files resulted from Wrapper export with automator (Let's say that file's name was A001_C020_0814EQ_F , I renamed it to A001_C020_0814EQ)

Then I made a sequence of Final Cut offline and did reconnect to these new files.As a result I found that I connected my sequence to original RED-files)."


Hi Denis,

The problem with this method is that although you are connected to raw 5K files, (I think) you'll find you're unable to render or export the 5K version from FCP (or Color) due to the 4K limit I mentioned in my earlier post.

Thinking about it you'd probably be able to import the project into Premiere for a 5K output, which might be the only inexpensive option assuming most people with FCP also have Premiere and After Effects on their systems.

Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
Post Blue showreel
Latest work: Greyhounds in Motion at 500fps
My Vimeo Pro page


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Denis Khodyrev
Re: REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Nov 29, 2012 at 6:03:57 pm

Hi Alex.

Thanks for the answer.
You are right.But the second goal for me to find this solution was probability to consolidate RED-files.
I could do this in FInal Cut and after consolidating I found RED-files in mov container with original quality.

Best regards,Denis.

Post-production engineer.


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Ben Allan
Re: REDCINE-X + FCP + Color
on Jun 12, 2014 at 3:45:13 am

Hey Guys thanks for all this it's a great help sorry to bring it up again but i've been given a FCP7 project and i'm using this method to get it into colour. Have you any idea why some of my clips are missing. I know this was an issue but did it ever get solved?


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