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How much hard drive space do I need for a SCARLET feature film

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Sébastien Morin
How much hard drive space do I need for a SCARLET feature film
on Jan 11, 2012 at 4:55:52 pm

HI,

We are waiting for our Red Scarlet to be shipped to start a Indie film project.
We want our final cut to be 100 minutes.
So based on the rule of 5 to 1, I guess we will be shooting 500 minutes of footage...?

We were thinking of ordering the Promise Pegasus R6 6TB (6x1TB) RAID System from apple.com
(to plug via Thunderbolt to our Macbook Pro 15-inch: 2.4 GHz 2.4GHz quad-core Intel Core i7)

Is it enough?

We never worked with RED before, thank you for help on this simple question.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: How much hard drive space do I need for a SCARLET feature film
on Jan 12, 2012 at 4:19:07 am

[Sébastien Morin] "How much hard drive space do I need for a SCARLET feature film"

The answer is "always more".

5 to 1 seems low.

If you use raid protection, your 6tb will be 5tb formatted, and you should certainly use raid protection.

We recently shot 4 commercials in 4 days, with red one MX (4k HD) which might have a heavier data rate than Scarlet. Not 100% sure on that one, actually.

We had 1TB of raw footage, my guess is you'll shoot more than we did. 1TB of raw amounted to 2 minutes of run time. Don't forget you'll need room for proxy footage, renders, composites, audio, family pictures, iTunes databases, pilfered media, production stills, and whatever your online will be.

I can't give you a straight answer, but 5TB will be cutting it close.

Good hunting,

Jeremy


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David Battistella
Re: How much hard drive space do I need for a SCARLET feature film
on Jan 12, 2012 at 12:11:07 pm

Im with jeremy on this one.

Plan on about a 20:1 shooting ratio at least.

It's so easy to blow through up 8-10 64BG cards in a day.

That's about 500GIG which will give you about 9.5 shooting days.

A feature will require a lot of data aquisition.

David

______________________________
The shortest answer is doing.
Lord Herbert
http://vimeo.com/battistella



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Lee Warner
Re: How much hard drive space do I need for a SCARLET feature film
on Jan 12, 2012 at 1:13:19 pm

Plus you may consider having a unit on set like this Data Wrangler. The LTO tape archive option is becoming necessary for qualifying for insurance/bonds.
http://www.1beyond.com/products/p2wrangler.asp?search=p2workflow

Lee

SAMDOG Digital Post
Calgary, Alberta
Mac Pro 2.66 12-core 16gb ram • FSI LM1760W Monitor • Matrox MX02 • Caldigit HD One 8tb Raid • Avid Artist Transport • Media Composer 5.5 • Final Cut Studio 3 • Premiere Pro CS5

• Living my life one frame at a time •


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Noah Kadner
Re: How much hard drive space do I need for a SCARLET feature film
on Jan 12, 2012 at 6:15:07 pm

This is one tool that might come in handy for you- http://www.digitalrebellion.com/webapps/video_calc.html

Noah

Call Box Training.
Featuring the Panasonic GH2 and GoPro HD Hero.


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Sébastien Morin
Re: How much hard drive space do I need for a SCARLET feature film
on Jan 19, 2012 at 10:48:28 pm

Thank you everyone for your input.

Thank you Noah for the link, I had something similar but didn't include REDCODE

I wish i could shoot 20 to 1, well probably not because I guess actors would get bored. I'm stuck to my 5 to 1. We have a tight schedule and since we are far from Hollywood (I'm from Montréal) I'm used to work 8 or 5 or even 4 to 1...

Of course we will have a Data Wrangler on set. But backing up on tape or dealing with a Post House is not possible.
The Post House I usually work with, quoted me a "friendly" price of 6500.00$ for t back up, at that price I can buy 2 RAID!!

My question was more for the extra room for proxy footage, renders, composites, audio. I think I have a better idea now thanks to you all.

Will probably go with the 12TB Promise Pegasus Raid, with the back up money to buy another one in case...


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Alex Elkins
Re: How much hard drive space do I need for a SCARLET feature film
on Jan 19, 2012 at 2:31:56 pm

Hi Sébastien,

As others have said, you're almost certainly underestimating your shooting ratio. What you're also not considering is that you won't edit with the raw files, which means they need to be converted to another format for offline editing - you need storage space for all that as well.

Plus ideally you need to keep around 30 - 40% of your raid empty, because drives begin to slow down drastically as they become more full.


To put it in perspective, I'd expect to be shooting between 100 - 300GB per day, and that's if you're not shooting too quickly. So averaged out over a 30-day shoot you're already looking at 6TB of raw files. Add another 1TB for your offline files and you're already way over what that drive will give you. Then whenever you render something, that's even more drive space being taken up...


My suggestion:
  • Buy 5 portable 1TB harddrives.
  • During shooting, hire a DIT to back up the files onto two of these separate drives.
  • At the end of each shooting day (or maybe every couple of days) take the drives to a post house to back up the files onto LTO tape (x2 copies) and create offline files for editing. They will save these files onto another of your drives.
  • Back-up the offline files onto your RAID. You can now re-use that drive.

    That, more or less, needs to be your process. If not, then be prepared to invest in a much larger RAID. Either way, a good DIT or a post house can advise you and keep the link between shoot and post on track.

    I know you say you're shooting an indie film so budget will be tight, but I strongly advise that you don't take any risks with backing up masters. Being forced to re-shoot things because a drive fails without having a backup is much more costly than investing in a half-decent infrastructure to begin with.

    Alex Elkins
    Twitter: @postbluetv
    http://www.postblue.tv
    View Post Blue showreel
    Shot on RED @ 100fps, Post on FCP/Color: Capoeira Film
    My Vimeo Pro page


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    Darren Kelly
    Re: How much hard drive space do I need for a SCARLET feature film
    on Jan 24, 2012 at 3:44:07 am

    3TB 7200rpm drives with 64GB of cache will set you about about $250.00 each in Canada (I live down the road in Kingston)

    Buy 6 of then for $1500. Then look for an external enclosure with thunderbolt. Should set you back about another $750, so for $2250, you'll have 15TB, lots of throughput, etc.

    I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE YOU ARE CONSIDERING EDITING THIS ON A MACBOOK PRO.

    Too small, too slow = days of frustration


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    Sébastien Morin
    Re: How much hard drive space do I need for a SCARLET feature film
    on Jan 25, 2012 at 2:13:02 am

    Well if this project does well, next time will buy a MacPro. For now I'll be using what I have...


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    Jon Frost
    Re: How much hard drive space do I need for a SCARLET feature film
    on Feb 22, 2012 at 8:20:04 am

    OK...

    You also need to consider backing up in two different places or on two different drives (RAIDs). You want to edit on a copy of your original files... You need to archive the complete folder structure from each card or drive from your RED camera so you don't corrupt your files, as others have done.... all too recently.

    Now, you have shot your feature over say, 21 days @ 1TB/day. That's 21 TB just for a single backup of your original files. Now you need to double that for a poor man's RAID 0.

    Now you are at: 42TB before you even edit a single clip! Oh, did I forget to mention your 2 system audio files need to be backed up each day to the same two places or drives as your original video?

    So you are all backed up and ready to edit... Trying to search through TB on TB of data over FW800 on a 15" MB Pro is going to lead you to take up drinking or some other drug while you wait for a simple clip to render. You've spent all that money on your Scarlet... and you don't even have the consideration to purchase a decent Desktop MAC Pro with a CUDA video card, all the RAM you can afford and dual 20"+ monitors for editing your pristine 4K footage.

    Check RED support for the manual for your Scarlet which will tell you the data rate your will be recording at based on resolution and frame rate.

    Good luck my friend,

    Jon Frost
    43-348-0591


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    Sébastien Morin
    Re: How much hard drive space do I need for a SCARLET feature film
    on Feb 28, 2012 at 10:50:03 pm

    Thank you all for your useful input.

    Test footage shooting is going on right now and I am fully comfortable on how my Macbook handles the files.

    In response to Jon Frost... I appreciate the time yo took the answer to my post. I felt it was important to tell you, I or we, didn't spent ALL(?) our money on the Scarlett. Actually we are putting all our money where it matters the most, on screen. On set design, on make up, on costume, on practical F/X... I'm sure you are an over qualify post-production greater mind, but don't be a gear junkie. We are doing the best we can with the money we have. Having all the great stuff would be amazing, but we can do without it. Of course it's gonna be slower. Of course we are gonna drink, because it's fun, but we won't need drugs. We wanna make our own project because we like telling stories... Not buying RAM and the biggest RAID available on earth.

    Ask yourself what you really need, don't be a gear junky, thank you for your help, I have no doubt you wanted to help.


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    Jon Frost
    Re: How much hard drive space do I need for a SCARLET feature film
    on Feb 28, 2012 at 11:23:00 pm

    Sabastien:

    Not looking to bash anyone at all. Just my experience that folks that I have worked with, have bought or rented the latest, greatest, fastest, etc. you get the idea..., and not spent enough time considering the requirements for getting both the visual and the auditory parts, recorded/captured, offloaded and backed up to two different drives, etc. I receive calls quite often trying to diagnose a problem with someone's project, footage, backup, etc., and not having 7,200 rpm drives and not enough storage space to archive, edit, render, etc. is often the case.

    I don''t claim to know it all, Lord knows I don't. Of course you can find other options, which while they may be slower, the end result is the same.

    I applaud you for taking the time to learn the Scarlet and its workflow for capturing and backing up all that pristine footage. You are already ahead of the game!

    Jon


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    Andres Delgado
    Re: How much hard drive space do I need for a SCARLET feature film
    on Mar 19, 2012 at 12:30:21 am

    Sebastien, try a iPhone, iPod, or iPad app call: AJA DataCalc, can tell you how many TB you i'll need! Regards!


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